Thread: Carving chisel equivalents and other important questions?

Hi Michael, SA Woodcarving Academy is on Payneham Rd at Stepney. Don't touch the chisels on a stone unless you really have to as they are usually buffed. They are ground and then sharpened on a stone if they are chipped or the wrong angle. Buffing will keep them sharp and you can go for years without using the stone, unless you carve every day.
I can't help you with the chart that shows the equivelent numbers.

Michael: scroll way down in the archives of this forum to find "Star's Sharpening Journey."
I tended to ramble a bit but for free-hand sharpening, that's what I do.

After 15 years of looking, I have yet to find an equivalency list!
1. To begin with, go to the UK site for Ashley Iles, get into the history section
and look for the "London Pattern Book." That is the classical foundation for the gouge numbering system.

2. Every tool maker thinks that they have a better idea than all the other guys, Pfeil and
Stubai are no exception. As you will see in the LPB, #1 is a straight chisel, #2 is a skew
(then we have to address the issue of right and left pairs).
But, Pfeil decided that straights would be #1 and that their skews would be #1S. So a #2
for them has the sweep of a #3 in the LPB.

3. Precisely which is which is not terribly important. All you need to know is that a #3 is a gentle sweep and
#8 or #9 are slightly different but very deep U-shapes.
Useful to know:
a) big gouges like 5/35 or 9/15 need a big mallet (I swing a lead core 30oz/940g) and they are magic for the rough work. Smaller edges, a 12oz/375g mallet is nice.
b) the V-tool numbers refer to the angle between the wings.
c) test them all in a softer wood for experience to see what sorts of marks the tools make.
I think that's what I'm after in the appearance of a carving = "how do I make the wood look like that?"

Hi Michael

Good to know there is another philomath in Adelaide who also likes woodcarving. By now I guess you would have found your way around, especially if you have had a few lessons. If you would like to meet other carvers you could come to our meetings on the first Saturday of every month and get a lot of tips (their mileage may vary, but they are free ) You can find the details on Woodgroup SA Home. Hope to see you there.

Cheers
Frank

Usually a second hand 'inherited' set of chisels represents a lifetime of collection by the previous owner who added to his set, one or two chisels at a time, as he found the need for them. As you are just starting out, you will find that there are those which are your favourites... those that you reach for regularly, and the rest... which you rarely if ever use. Numbers really aren't all that important. Order them in increasing arc for the gouges and decreasing angle for the V tools. Pick and use whatever gives you the shape of cut that best suits your purposes at any given moment as you work through your project. Over time you'll come to identify any 'holes' in your collection (if there are any) and you can go out and get that specific tool.

I would also endorse the SA Woodcarving Academy on 133 Payneham Road, St Peters. Ken Vear is one of the best carvers in the state and a very pleasant chap as well. He can certainly give you a very professional grounding in the techniques of traditional carving.

Back in October I asked a couple of questions. It's over 4 months later but I have some answers for those that may be interested -

Firstly equivalents. I sent off emails to Stubai, dastra and Pfeil to ask if they had this information. I only got an answer from Pfeil who said they didn't but their catalogue had a full size print out of the chisel profiles, so I could match to that. To top it all they sent a copy of their catalogue to me airmail from Switzerland.
Comparing what I had to what they showed, I came up with this -

Equivalents.jpg

Limited, but it may be of help to someone, especially when looking at bad eBay descriptions.

Then the question of numbering came up. Someone suggested to me that all chisels in a series had the same radius, but looking at a catalogue page suggested that was wrong. I did some measurements based on the width and the crown of selected tools in the catalogue (widths 10, 20 and 40) for tools 2 to 9 inclusive. Helped by a Swiss habit of orderliness, the result was that I think the series numbers refer to the included angle, so for example all Pfeil no. 7 chisels sweep through 90 degrees. Below is a table summarising the angles. I'm quite prepared for my maths to be wrong but I think I have it. (The measurements were faint pencil lines on photo copied catalogue pages, so they could be wrong as well)

angles.jpg

As a couple of people have said, the numbers are not of primary importance but I think it is nice to know why a particular chisel is numbered the way it is. It also means if you have a chisel without any marking on it you should (with a little trig) be able to work out which series it sits in by measuring the width and depth of the arc.

As for lessons, I've signed up for a series with Ken at SAWA. I hope at the end of them I'll understand the basics enough to at least learn some technique I can build on.

Michael

I think that my brief explanation of the gouge numbering system in Post #3 should get you started.
That includes the subtle departure that Pfeil made from the London Pattern Book.
I cannot tell you if Stubai followed them. Henry Taylor and Ashley Iles should have charts in their websites, derived from the opriginal LPB.
Quite an inventory. Honing on a strop should be all that's needed.
I agree: find experienced carvers to get a real assessment.

Stubai numbering is quite close to Pfeil's.
You can find full size pictures of sweeps in dealer's catalogues usually, or on the manufacturer's websites.
I recently bought a few Pfeil gouges. I marked a scrap with each gouge I have to compare and check what I needed, as I mostly have Stubai.

Thanks copeau. Pfeil is out by one number. All the V's and bent things are the same, far as I know.
How are Stubai skews labelled? 1S? maybe?

In the LPB, #1 is a flat chisel.
#2 is a skew (but flat) chisel.
#3 has a bit of a sweep to it.

Pfeil decided to label their skews as #1S
So their #2 has a sweep like the LPB #3.

Ha... Stubai straight is#1 and skew chisel is #2. #3 is the flatest sweep. So there might be a difference of 1 number... looks like it's closer of the LPB.
A PDF catalogue with sweeps is aviable on Stubai website. Pfeil tool chart can be seen on woodcraft.com for example.

Thanks copeau.
Looks like Stubai follows the LPB, Pfeil uses 1S instead of a 2.
I guessed that they all have to be fairly close to avoid getting beat out of the marketplace
with confusion
I have an approximate mental image of the depth and shape of the different gouge cuts.
Best visual appeal to me is a #5 or #6.