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Thread: Pentograph used for wood
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23rd May 2008, 12:14 PM #16GOLD MEMBER
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Of course! I think the problem is my too brief expression. No wicked intention to "push buttons" beyond what is necessary for meaningful discussion. My apologies for using "churned", it seems to imply a carelessness I thought I had denied by saying "if each one is individually finished". And of course there is nothing wrong with camels. What I meant is that when the subject is immutable and expected to be realistic, the skill is in the detail, not in an impossible innovation. I do not see anything controversial in that.
I am sure that "in terms of the journey of art-making" Clare is able to make horses (or camels, for what matters ) like Picasso's, but I am also sure that she will not sell them as rocking horses. If you can prove me wrong, Clare, I am happy to stand corrected.
What we were really discussing here, I thought, is to what extent the tool defines or qualifies "art" as distinct from "skill". When we were talking about carving, it appeared that a self respecting "carver" does not use sandpaper, while a "sculptor" can use anything that will produce the desired result. My point is that, if innovation is not an issue, a pantograph is no different from a bandsaw.
I tend to believe (and again, Clare, there is absolutely no criticism intended) that the "I have done all this with hand tools and took me 500 hours" is only necessary to justify the price tag for a certain type of client. The type of client who is prepared to pay $20,000 for a rocking horse, maybe?
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23rd May 2008, 11:18 PM #17Senior Member
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...you looking for another meaningful discussion, Frank?- actually, sanding was( and still is) used in woodcarving long before somebody decided there was any difference between a woodcarver and a sculptor who works with wood-(carving a sculpture out of wood happens to be NOT a woodcarving,then?).In the vast and noble field of architectural woodcarving sanding is a must, since more often than not the finished work is being painted/gilded.And what about carving with rotary tools? You coud say, that ALL the carving is made by ,well...something close to sanding
It's a slow and painful process...the secret is, dont mind the pain.(Ian Norbury)
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Ivan Chonov
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23rd May 2008, 11:28 PM #18
Just to stir the pot a bit more, in monumental or architectural work, there are often symmetric elements; portions of altarpieces and coats of arms, for example. Achieving symmetry by eye alone could be dodgy at best. I'm not sure how the linkages would work, but a Duplicarver-type apparatus might be applicable, at least for shaping the opposite-hand blank.
JoeOf course truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense. - Mark Twain
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23rd May 2008, 11:29 PM #19
"INCOMING"
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24th May 2008, 04:56 PM #20
what a load of rocking horse crap it would be like a painter taking a photo and saying look how well l paint .A bandsaw dosn't copy it cuts only where a copy carver well copies
smile and the world will smile with you
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28th May 2008, 01:50 AM #21Member
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[quote=SPIRIT;743073]what a load of rocking horse crap....../quote]
Would that be "hand carved" rocking horse crap..?? or "machine carved" rocking horse crap..????
Exactly how were the marble blocks quarried or excavated during the Renaissance for the masters to carve/sculpt their pieces??
Is it possible to carve sculpt a block of wood that has NOT been touched by a machine??? to harvest the timber?? to cut the timber to manageable size?? machine tool to remove waste/excess???
is it possible to resolve this without getting horsie "poo" on everyone??? Someone please tell me....Am I a carver or a sculptor??"Too old to be this useful, Way too useful to be this old"
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28th May 2008, 02:08 AM #22GOLD MEMBER
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28th May 2008, 06:36 AM #23
what if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?
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28th May 2008, 01:33 PM #24GOLD MEMBER
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Undoubtedly. The subtlety here, which I hope is equally clear, is that if you create something that it is uniquely yours and then use a duplicarver to rough out similar items because symmetry or repetition is part of your creative intent, the use of the machine fits in your first scenario, not in the second.
The proof is in the reverse argument. If it were not so, nobody who sculpts a subject already existing in nature could claim to be creative.
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28th May 2008, 07:45 PM #25
now l think everybody should go get a lump of wood and carve a face in it don't make any plans just let yourself go .When l started carving a bit l gave doing woodspirits ago l check out a cool web site that said all wood has a spirit the trick was to get them to show them self to the carver .
I have tried this type of carving many times and enjoy it as you carve you try and make up a story that goes with the spirit you are carving .
So what has this got to with this thread
it feels like that I'm creative when l carve like thissmile and the world will smile with you
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28th May 2008, 08:08 PM #26
Well all that seemed to scare Pencilneck off! I thought a pantograph was mainly to change the scale of a drawing (or carving), make it proportionally bigger than the original...not to reproduce a multiple of them. Anyway, Pencilneck has either got what he was after, or more than he bargained for!!
My take on this original vs multiple argument is to look at bronze castings. The original, the master, might have been made by the artist in clay, plaster or wood (nowdays could be any number of media). In my view that is the art piece (hands-on item of original work by a talented person), but it is treated as almost a temporary step, a disposable thing with which to (re)create the finished object. This next stage is accomplished by tradesmen, and as skilled as they might be, they aren't the artist or creator. However the finished sculpture in bronze is seen as the artwork, despite the artist possibly not laying a hand on it! And what's more, it is feasible that more than one can be produced, signed perhaps by the artist as a series.
To my point, does that process describe the mass production from an original carving by a Duplicarver? I don't think its far off!!
CheersAndy Mac
Change is inevitable, growth is optional.
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28th May 2008, 09:30 PM #27
I have this big, 5 axis pantograph in my shed,
I built it a few years ago,
it's a work of art
it was made to produce a short run of pieces that I didn't have the skill to make by hand
what if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?
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28th May 2008, 11:51 PM #28Member
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I have seriously considered a pantograph/duplicarver for a while now....NOT to create a finished carving, just to remove as much excess as possible to get down to the good parts....I have long considered myself to be a "wood carver" and in the most basic of terms I am a "chipper"....It would seem that the most of what I make is, of course, chips!!!!
Underfoot...would you consider adding some pictures of your pantograph??? I would love to see it...
If you really wanna have some fun with chip flying....put a carbide tipped router bit in a foredom/flexible shaft handpiece, run that up to about 3,500 rpms....just DON"T turn loose!!! you can remove excess in a real hurry"Too old to be this useful, Way too useful to be this old"
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29th May 2008, 10:08 AM #29
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29th May 2008, 02:46 PM #30
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