Thread: lady woodies in europe

Hi Tilly - hope you have a blast!

Try these for courses in the UK

Europe
New Legacy School of Woodworking
(Traditional hand tool woodworking and furniture making)
Penrhyn Castle
Llandegai, Bangor, LL57 4HN
England
Tel: (0) 1248 710662

The Thomas Chippendale School of Furniture
(Design and making of Furniture)
Gifford, East Lothian EH41 4JA
Scotland
Tel: 44 0 1620 810680

Found just those two in the UK with a quick gurgle search, but I'm sure once you get there you'd have no difficulty picking up some referrals.

Just found a few more - can't vouch for currency or the links.

United Kingdom
Christopher Faulkner
Ashridge Barn Totnes
Devon TQ9 6EW
Phone: U.K. 01803-862861 or 863736 evenings
From the U.S. call 011-441-803-862861

David Charlesworth, Fine Furniture Making Courses
Harton Manor
Hartland
Bideford, Devon EX39 6BL
Phone: U.K. 01237-441-288
From the U.S. call 011-44-1237-441-288
Web site: www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

New Legacy School of Woodworking
Penrhyn Castle
Llandegai
Bangor, Gwynedd, Wales LL57 4HN
Phone: 44-0-1248-710662
Email: [email protected]
Web site: www.newlegacy.co.uk

Rycotewood College
Priest End, Thame,
Oxfordshire, OX9 2AF
Contact: Evers Pearce
Phone: 44-1844-21-2501
Fax: 44-1844-21-8809
Email: [email protected]

The Thomas Chippendale School of Furniture
Gifford
East Lothian, Scotland EH41 4JA
Phone: 44-0-1620-810680
Fax: 44-0-1620-810701
Email: [email protected]
Web site: www.chippendale.co.uk

Williams and Cleal Furniture School
Willet Farm Workshop, Willet
Lydeard St. Lawrence
Taunton, Somerset TA4 3QB
Contact: Jane Cleal
Phone: 01984 667555
Email: [email protected]
Web site: www.williamsandcleal.co.uk

The Yarner Trust
Welcombe Barton, Welcombe
Bideford, Devon EX39 6HF
Phone: 01288-331692
Web site: www.yarnertrust.co.uk

sweet, thanks so much! i can't wait to get over there. i'l be working in a few outdoor rec camps in france and then have free time to work and learn fine woodworking from the masters!
thanks a bundle!!

Awsome I don't have any contacts but I'm green with envy

Cheers

Robyn

Green with envy?? Heck Yes!!!!!!!!!

Hope you have a wonderful time Tilly Lou and that you are able to stay in touch with us here and tell us how things go for you.

cheers
Wendy

I'm so pumped for it! I'll definitely be here sharing all the cool experiences!

Hi..some hints for your magic trip coming up...and I love Europe and its village to village history with passion I am just succumbing to temptation to pass on some open observations finding places however having visited many French "Brocantes"..and having a house there but only since 1999 but visiting most years since 1995 ...I have travelled France Provence and Normany extensively, Spain Portugal and bits of Italy. You kind of learn things of great value as a human from being there. ...very much that our own countries re NOT the be all and end all..

As a woodie....you might find some fascinating tools here and there and also superb coffee grinders and "chopping boards. I have bought the odd plane and antiques and some great ancient furniture which "les verres" have probably consumed now while I've been away and the house in comparatuive darkness....One fascinating buy for very little money...might have been 10 or 20 eu. I reckon it is about a metre long wood plane.... they had such massive beams as well as floor boards with which to deal boards 300mm to 599mm wide. I imagine that on return you'll be passionate about buying a house there too LOL!!...and there are some decent time shares ...

Paris is great but it isn't France if you get my drift..it is a wonderful artistic conglomerate but there are Americans in particular trying to recreate the Hemingway and boheme Parisian era. Try to avoid eating at street stalls unless you have a cast iron stomach...and in the next block to Notre Dame (which usually means the Magdalen, not Mary) is a wonderful church built by (later) St Bernard for the safety of Cathars. He ended up burned...too successful a defender of the Parfaits whose monumental places you will see in the south...like Queribus, Montesegur etc and you might even get to Rennes le chateau.

In France don't go past 3 star accommodation ..it's not necessary when travelling and especially if they have their own kitchen. Use your wits. If you have a chance at all visit provence...perhaps especially St Maximin la Sante Baume, the never finished Dominican cathedral ...you will be dazed by the size and volume of the wood carvings. Lucien Bonaparte saved its organ during the madness of the revolution (and who inspired that...look not at Voltaire and Robespierre but external forces) by having it placed each day. Bonnieux, over the valley is under the huge searchlight is Marquis de Sades paradoxial chateau, Rochebrune, Monaco, Trogladyte caves, massive mines now possible to explore in Provence, le Var...Ansuis, the ancient chateau with still its huge copper reservoir in the kitchen etc etc etc...its family is represented in every royal famility in the world. ...and the local pression was great, I have never had a bad beer in France... and the Salad nicoise \superb ....it's just an amazing experience.

Buying.....Efforts to haggle people down is not appreciated even if they do haggle...They are not hagglers by nature, the french, they are not fundamentally rich antiquers and much of their stock is on commission. I had a beautiful Danish table for sale in one shop and did NOT appreciate to fnd he'd been haggled down at my expense...and took 25% ...I'd have kept it at the price for which he sold it!..lovely piece.......so be generous.

Now very much against the idea that Americans have the French still stage Parisian parades for them they do not welcome them with open arms...they rate about as the Dutch do, and that's not great...and now Australians are much the same as the Brits after their social fabric has been rent with Germans Dutch Brits and others making out they are estate agents and selling up the place often with major scams.

You have to make your own way as an individual by being a nice person but also straight forward. Many of these people are very poor an only have their dignity and a pension. Many have no land at the house but a vegie patch nearbye "why spend the weekend mowing le gazon monsieur, when one can eat and drink wine and entertain one's friends......voila!"

Spain has experienced worse...with investors building huge foul apartment blocks in the middle of nowhere, sometimes without adequate services, spoiling the place people loved because of what it was...get my drift.Now these places cannot be sold...oversupply, overpriced...

The French take a long time to really warm to people, quite often....and like people to at least make a serious effort to speak their language.

They can admire housing renovations but dislike intensely the last 10 years of increases in housing costs and rentals as so many rent a place for life....and their young people are struggling now. For many years the prices were stable and affordable for them...but that didn't suit the brits in particular, lurking just across the way... I think migration has benefitted the Supermarches, Hypermarches and Quincailleries but some parts of France see it as an invasion...understandably. One village I suggested be renamed "London" as only one Frenchman remained...all the rest were poms. In the Dordogne are many cricket clubs and it's all noted with some derision.

I am only saying this to prepare you to not be hysterically welcomed as much as you might like (Italy is different...your derrier will be bruised!.....) but don't let that depress you..just enjoy it all, it's a magic part of the world and let's leave it that way.. People often take offence at being told the truth, and one is judged on one's accent for a start...and then by their behaviour. The Parisians deride the Southerners...but go there for holidays or buy, if wealth enough, holiday houses in the South...or often own them from another era. Notaires themselves sell property in France...you don't have to find an expat "agent".

Some of the brocanters are quite poor and you will see that reflected in the stock so when you spot the greatest piece there it's nice not to haggle..but if you absolutely must and just cannot be bothered to change spots, "Mssr, bonjour, , ..est ce possible baisser le prix? . All French expect "bonjour" at the outset of conversation and "bonne journee" or "a bientot," at the end as you leave, otherwise you are just ignorent. They live in social communes and wisely are not debt crazed capitalists trying to pretend they aren't.

Can I suggest if you do want to try a lower price put several things on the counter and after "bonjour" ask, Mssr, pour tout ...prix especial?..or "monsieur..bonjour, je ne parle bien le francais, pardonez-moi, mais, monsieur, ces biens la...combien le lot...possible etre un peux moins cher?? If he does, look pleased "Merci monsieur vous etes tres gentile..tres bien apprecie" maybe buy something else without haggling then as a thank you.

Don't take it upon your self to start putting the gear you chose back on the shelves to teach him a lesson if he gives the full price, you just ruin it for yourself the next and remember plenty were there before you, depressing him, insulting hiim, irritating his efforts to stay alive amd pay his ever increasing taxes. Only put up what you want to buy...

If you keep your eyes open you will find something small and interesting. Be very careful about Jewellery and "art" try to avoid African artifacts ...you have to come from Mahli to know that mask is actually a fake..get me? I nearly wept when a chap with whom I did reasonable business didn't let me know he had 2 hansom carriages for sale for 400 eu the lot...and had sold them to someone else.......shriek!!

I did however buy some great tables..my house had avoided les verres, it seemed ..unusual but when I upset the macon..builder...nearbye the next year my place had les "'verres" .

The French are generally not appreciative of being "saved" in WW11 and I think try to forget the ignominy, only in Brittany might you find memories of that. ..so don't even bother trying to chat about "the war"..and keep in mind that DO they well remember their losses of thousands of sons at Dien bien Phu when the Americans broke promises to assist and then let them down...badly. They can as a general rule also fight quite well with their fists.

Whew...well I hope to have transmitted some exhubrance and common sense and the sense of this is their country and not ours...they don't see themselves as a giant tourism benefit. . but more accurately as a tourist target they don't want. To experience France try to learn from the French rather than go into an expat ghetto. Be prepared to feel bad and frustrated but remember...you can always draw a picture or gesticulate...oh..and when you are cut off by some seemingly insane french driver, better not to give him some gesture indicating his madness...just drive on...

Did I mention that a cabinet maker in France is an ebonist. The timber we call cedar is to them a sound like cedre...

For them "cedar"...is the sound of SIDA...or AIDS. I got caught with that blunder....Monsieur..set ce que vous avez le cedar (to him "SIDA"!!) ...Response QUOI ?? (what??..)

Monsieur, quest ce que vous me demande..SIDA..mais non !.......Monsieur est ce que vous avez le cedar, ...cedar ? ..ah you mean le bois Monsier cedre...CEDRE!...pas SIDA!!...Monsieur, en France SIDA is AIDS!! .....Comprenez-vous bien Monsieur... Ouch!!

Wood is "bois" Non potable" means "NOT drinking water. For the money spent on bottled water..few drink from taps...they could have sorted out any water problems throughout the country ten times over... Noyer is their top timber, chetagnie amd various fruit timbers also abound . Look up the Internet for technical trade translations and Babel fish is also handy for block translations...Dogs are still found in some restaurants, vomiting on your shoes in the train or at the butchers...be prepared.......whew!!..

Hope that helps...
Voila (that's how/where it is)

Merde!

Mick.

cripes, you have put the frightners on me mate i'm staying home. lloyd.

Hi...so much "reaction"..fore-warned is fore-armed. Everyone is different but the things I have written are the things I have seen and experienced. The French have to put up with their country being used by others when they were happy with the way it was...but, there's no need to really rub them up the wrong way on a superiority trip. In villages they live reasonably private lives. Markets are usually Thursday or Saturday and a lot of the gear now is just imported rubbish but some is a great find.

I reckon the wisdom I have passed on could make a trip really very much more pleasurable, just by being aware, rather than a turn-off..don't look at it as "merde" .

Actually I thought it was pretty valuable info or I wouldn't have bothered as again I am now, ....including about the tools...and most wooden have evidence of "les verres" in the country. Maybe in Paris...more "sophisticated" has better gear but remeber they think we like "rustique". Some terribly interesteing things turn up in the oddest places..simply ask where there is a brocante, and you are searching for "acheter vieux utiles artisinal...charpentier" there is not one in every village but are a few in Toulouse and the villages like Pezenas have many (and many dodgies...so be aware) ...There is so much fun achieving and less in learning sometimes...

One reason for teh demise of artifacts is that experters buy them by the container load and flog them at vast profits...but also the mafia comes through in trucks and buys up anything saleable so as to launder money!!...taking it back to Italy and selling it as a loss is not a problem...suddenly they have legitimate currency!.

I also added in some humour (might have been missed)..I am in the wine area.... "Bonjour mmselle",..."bonjour monsieur"..."Mmselle avez vous des bouteilles du vin ici sans preservatives"?...

"Pardon?"... sans"QUOI"?? Monsieur...!!"

"Mmselle...est ce que vous avez du vin sans preservatives"...

dumbfounded look mouth moves no words emerge...

" Mmselle...bouteilles du vin....sans preservatives, ahhh "vin naturel", ...Mmselle...sans chemicals...sans sulphites ....sans..."

"AHHHHH!!..monsieur...tres difficile comprendre....Connaisez-vous pas qu' un preservatif en France est un CONDOM!! monsieur ... Vous me avez demande pour du vin sans condoms"

Ohhh!!...Whooops!!...ahem, mmselle, "avez vous du vin ahhhhh...sans chem's....sans condiments...vin pur..." puis??...."

"Desole...mais non, nous ne l'avons pas, monsieur" .

I imagined the lady who initiated the inquiry looking forward to her wonderful trip...would visit the brocantes..they are not really plentiful as in England and Australia...looking for tools or bricbrac...and there is a way to approach that.

Can I suggest that many towns have centres touristique where you can ask about the area...and don't forget everything shuts between 12 and 2 pm (and they use the 24 hour clock and thus "entre douze heures et quatorze heures" ....and the local council (Mairie) usually have someone who speaks English whom you can ask about other women charpentiers or ebonistes. ...a tradesperson there is un "artisan". Restaurants open typically from noon to 4 pm at latest then close to the evening. "Staying on" as in other countries is not endearing to them. They actually have lives and responsibilites and like to get away to them.

Now hopefully 12 years of hard won wisdom has been passed-on to someone going to France for the first time...and what a journey of wonderment it is.....don't stay at home. It's also important to realise they were so awed and shamed in WW11 that their is a collective loss of memory except up North, for whatever reason...they realy, in general, are oblivious to those things which have us seeing France as "part of our familly"...best to know that..and that different races have left an impact, a mark on the French, through ostentatious wealth, insensitivity, refusal to learn the language, expat ghettoing, often only using expat tradesmen, and a superior attitude. Others make the transition well...Think about our own reactions fellows...., often.... to foreign cultures in oiur own countries....It isn't any difference and wouldn't it have been better alla round it they knew how to behave more productivelly in your country? I hope I have saved someone unecessary grief and made a good trip simpler....

I have said enough/too much but it was all done in good heart and with a desire to make the trip better...I have gone right off the point of tools and I am not going further...

Voila, lloyd

et al...

Anthony

Anthony, I realise now that my exclamation could be interpreted a couple of ways. I wasn't really hanging it on you, it was more of an exclamation about the almost unbelievable information you had posted.

I could go on in a like manner about Germany, married to one and have been there quite a lot.

Mick.

Hi Mick...thanks for the explanation....I wonder what "unbelievable" means....like "fascinating" or "unbelievable amount"...if anything else I protest ..."believe me, believe me"......wringing my hands obsequiously!!

I wonder in your Germany...whence came one lot of my "if you have problems you earned them through sin" ancestors on one side...what one finds in antique shops...or even if there are antique shops. We the civilised ones incinerated everything and everyone possible as I recall....Perhaps "metal blob ...was once handplane 1 DM" (pretty much like right now in the ME.) I have never visited Germany, though have plentiful relatives in neighbouring Bavaria. I have extensive experience in France Provence Normandy, Spain and Portugal and some in South Africa and Britain. fitting in with the culture of others when there is more productive than enforcing one's own I reckon, but one can quietly use one's own 'formed" analysis to satisfy one's self as after all...one is satisfying one's already formed ideas. What is interesting is learning to enjoy ,say ,French situations and artifacts from forming one's self into their perceptions.