An 18th century style Windsor chair.

**Woodwould** · 25th June 2008, 05:24 PM

I have had the great pleasure of handling and selling some very fine antique Windsor chairs in the past few decades. I have also made many Windsor chairs following various provincial styles, but I never kept one myself. My timing is appalling, I know, but after I 'retired', an irresistible urge developed to make a stylish Windsor for myself, but I don't have the facilities I once had to produce such a chair.

I wanted a big bold chair that would make a powerful statement yet compliment other furniture and antiques in our home. I had a look through the renowned bible of English vernacular seating by Bernard D. Cotton, The English Regional Chair. However, I didn't see exactly what I wanted. For better or worse, I am psychologically trapped somewhere in the latter half of the eighteenth century and I didn't want one of the later styles of chairs so popularised in Victorian times. Further research was imperative.

I recently purchased an excellent new book simply titled Windsor Chairs by Michael Harding-Hill, an established English dealer specialising in Windsors. Therein I found the precise style of chair I was yearning for; a double bow elbow chair with four cabriole legs, made in the Thames Valley region in the last quarter of the eighteenth century. This type of Windsor chair was widespread amongst the coffee houses, tearooms and taverns of London and other fashionable centres of the mid to late eighteenth century, yet extant examples in good condition are rare and can fetch upwards of $4,000.

There is a Windsor chairmaker in the next village to the one I lived in for six years before I immigrated, so I contacted Carl at Holland Chairs and asked him if he would make a chair of the style I had decided on. He agreed and a couple of weeks later I received a few photos of my new chair in the white and very shortly afterwards I got word from the shipper that it was en route to Australia! It's due here around the end of August.

I don't want to breach any copyright conventions by the inclusion of the chair from Harding-Hill's book, but here is a picture Carl sent me of my new chair in the white. The chair is a very fair reproduction of the picture I sent to Carl.

To save on the cost of shipping (well, it's one reason), I asked Carl to send the chair unassembled. So now I find myself 'tooling up' with some of the most basic stuff I took for granted for so many years. But buying tools is always fun! I say tools, but in reality, I don't need much because Carl has performed everything but the final wipe over with Angels Pubes. That I am happy to do.

I have already mixed the stains and finishes in anticipation of the chair's arrival. The staining is the most critical procedure as it soaks directly into the wood (not applied in layers of polish or lacquer on top of the wood) and it's a one-chance-only process. Once the timber is stained, there's no going back! One has to be resolute and brave!

With about two months to go until the chair's arrival, I may be going off half cocked here, but it's been seven years since I last handled a piece of raw furniture, so I'm very excited. I'll post more when the chair arrives.

**MALPT** · 25th June 2008, 06:17 PM

Very nice chair woodwould!

After you've 'bravely' stained and finished you should make us even more envious with some more pics of the finished chair!

**IanW** · 26th June 2008, 09:17 AM

Interesting chair Woodwould. Haven't seen a chair of any sort with all 4 legs cabrioled, before. There's a pic of an "English style" Windsor in Wallace Nutting's "furniture Treasury" which has cabriole legs on the front and rather crude-looking undecorated legs at the back. After seeing yours, I'm wondering if the original hind legs had an accident & these are replacements. The rest of the chair is quite fancy, with a double-bow, & a fretted centre splatt instead of all spindles like yours.

I'm wondering how the legs are joined to the seat (which I presume is Elm?). When it gets here, could you please post a pic & details of the leg-to-seat joinery, just to assuage my curiosity?

I'm a fan of Windsor style chairs myself, and also 'pschycologically trapped', only in my case it's with 18th C American styles.

Cheers,

**Woodwould** · 26th June 2008, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by IanW

Interesting chair Woodwould. Haven't seen a chair of any sort with all 4 legs cabrioled, before. There's a pic of an "English style" Windsor in Wallace Nutting's "furniture Treasury" which has cabriole legs on the front and rather crude-looking undecorated legs at the back. After seeing yours, I'm wondering if the original hind legs had an accident & these are replacements. The rest of the chair is quite fancy, with a double-bow, & a fretted centre splatt instead of all spindles like yours.

I'm wondering how the legs are joined to the seat (which I presume is Elm?). When it gets here, could you please post a pic & details of the leg-to-seat joinery, just to assuage my curiosity?

I'm a fan of Windsor style chairs myself, and also 'pschycologically trapped', only in my case it's with 18th C American styles.

Cheers,

Your observation is astute; two front cabriole legs are the norm (with chairs that have cabriole legs). Four cabriole legs are quite rare and were reserved for the finest examples made from yew and/or fruitwoods as opposed to the more usual beech and ash.

Traditionally, the spigots of all legs of this period protrude through the seat and are wedged. It wasn't until the latter part of the nineteenth century that blind leg holes were introduced. Unfortunately my chair appears to have blind leg holes.

The seat is indeed elm and I left it up to Carl what timber he used for the remainder, but I did request yew or fruitwood. From the photo, it looks to me like fruitwood legs and possibly some yew elsewhere. Time will tell.

As always, each to their own, but personally, I detest early American furniture as much as Victorian. I'm quite fundamental in my obsession with antiques. My specialist period in furniture is between the years 1680 to 1780. I don't believe in reincarnation, but I do have an uncanny affiliation and understanding of every aspect of the latter part of the eighteenth century. I have a respectable collection of many articles from the period including clothing, glass, porcelain, silver and of course furniture.

**Woodwould** · 5th August 2008, 03:33 PM

The chair is still about a month away, but I feel like an expectant parent who has just been unwittingly informed by an ultrasound technician of the sex of the unborn child.

I was Googling something totally unrelated when this page popped up. Before I realised what I was doing, I had read which timbers were used in my chair and for which components.

I had a fair idea what the timbers might be, but I was still excited to be surprised or proven wrong when the chair arrived. Still, it's reinvigorated me and I'm eagerly awaiting the chair's arrival early in September.

**JDarvall** · 5th August 2008, 06:09 PM

Looks well made Woodwould,

I'm more familar with the american ones. Noticed the undercarraige between those cabriole legs is similar to what I did with mine. Caroline undercage is something I'd like to try next. Not so keen on the cabriole legs for some reason.

Interested in the bend of that back bow. How you do it...timber etc.

**Woodwould** · 5th August 2008, 07:23 PM

I don't know anything about Australian timbers, but traditionally, Windsor bows were bent from ash, occasionally yew (for higher class chairs) and sometimes even oak. If you knew what the early pioneers used for yokes, axe handles or wagon shafts, those timbers would most likely lend themselves to being steam bent.

To bend the wood, you first need a steamer; a big tin with a tight-fitting lid and a short piece of copper pipe soldered into the lid would do. The tin is then placed on a gas ring or similar to produce the requisite saturated steam.

A hose from the tin takes the steam to a close-fitting wooden box into which you place the parts you want to bend. The box should be set at a slight angle to allow condensed water to drain out. The wood is steamed for about an hour for every inch of thickness of the wood whereupon it will be very supple. As with most woodworking assemblies, you need everything else 100% ready because as soon as you take the piece of wood out of the steamer, it begins cooling.

The former around which the steamed wood is bent should be the same shape as the desired bow, but it needs to be slightly longer so the tail ends of the bow can be clamped to the correct shape rather than left hanging in mid air where they'll adopt what ever shape they choose.

The former is screwed down onto a base board with a series of holes around the periphery of the bend. The steamed wood is centred on the former and pegs are inserted one at a time around the bow, while tension is put on the wood so it conforms to the former. Usually the pegs and holes aren't quite tight up against the wood being bent so small, shallow wedges can be driven (in the direction the bow is being pulled/bent) between the pegs and the steamed wood for ultimate tension. With tapered bows (narrower at the open end), the tail ends are then tied to accentuate the shape as there will be a degree of springback when the bow is removed from the former.

Some people use a thin stainless steel band between the pegs/wedges and the steamed wood to better even out the tension. I never bothered with a band.

The piece of wood being steamed should be slightly oversize to allow for cleaning up when dry although some would argue that if a steel band is used, there are not as many bruises from the pegs/wedges and therefore the wood can be the exact size required. I would always prefer to allow for a little cleaning up no matter how the wood is bent as it rarely steams/expands/contracts evenly.

If you're interested in Windsors, I would highly recommend Harding-Hill's book (it covers the history from the earliest primative examples to the more familliar early mass-produced shapes - which are very similar in style to the US variety, which is hardly surprising when you think of where the early settlers came from), but the book doesn't cover the making of chairs.

If you're only interested in Septic chairs, there are dozens of books on the history and making of them. Michael Dunbar seems to be the Windsor guru in the US and has written a few books.

**JDarvall** · 5th August 2008, 07:42 PM

ta.

yep. quite fond of septic chairs.

..... I've made a nantucket fanback. no bows though, which is one of the next things to grasp. Just a curved crest which I laminated. Show a picture of it if interested.

Not much windsor chair history here in Australia thats for shore. Finding it tricky to find timbers suitable (and available to me)

Problem with the books is, obviously, they revolve around timbers from the UK or US.

What timbers have you steam bent personally ? Ash ? ...curious to how it bends.

**IanW** · 5th August 2008, 08:19 PM

Jake - I have no experience with bending our own woods, but if you check Bootle's book (if you have a copy), among others he reckons Blackwood is pretty good - it was valued by coachmakers. From my (limited) experience at bending northern hemisphere woods, I reckon quite a few Acacias would work well - especially as you could go & get some fresh from the bush - green wood & a bit of steam are a great combo. My biggest challenge was a continuous-arm fopr a kid's chair - it needed some pretty sharp bends & I went through about a cord of wood before getting one right. I certainly recommend getting your own green wood & splitting out the lengths you need - sawn wood is very dodgy unless it happens to follow the fibres very closely. Maybe a few other forumites will chip in with their experiences - I'm curious to have another go at some bending myself someday soon (like in the next 10 years or so!).

As for suitable chair woods, we have a few. Most hardwoods are structurally suitable for high-stress parts like legs & back spindles, but so many of the damn things are splintery (NOT good for back spindles!) and a right bear to turn any decent patterns on. I've had most success with various Acacias (Blackwood can be perfect, but can also be difficult) and river oak (Casaurina cuninghamii). Younger R. oak turns quite well & takes good detail - older trees get pretty tough, especially the near-black heartwood! And it is certainly strong enough - it was the favoured wood for bullock-yokes according to Mr. Bootle.

I've used a lot of other softer woods for legs, like SO, for example & if in doubt, make them a bit fatter, though that can spoil the lines. Like you, I greatly admire some of those old Septic Windsors, & for the best examples, you need a wood like Blackwood that will turn well & be strong in smaller diameters. Hoop pine makes good seats if you can get it in the chunky sizes - it's nearly an exact match for the White Pine much favoured by the Yanks. I've had the pleasure of sitting on some lovely examples, & part of the comfort comes from that little bit of 'give' in the undercarriage & back.

Chair-making is really satifying woodworking, isn't it? I like tackling all kinds, but Windsors are my favourite - unfortunately my SO prefers more 'formal' styles, but that's ok - I can make those too..... (Someday!

)
Cheers,

**Woodwould** · 6th August 2008, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by apricotripper

ta.

yep. quite fond of septic chairs.

..... I've made a nantucket fanback. no bows though, which is one of the next things to grasp. Just a curved crest which I laminated. Show a picture of it if interested.

Not much windsor chair history here in Australia thats for shore. Finding it tricky to find timbers suitable (and available to me)

Problem with the books is, obviously, they revolve around timbers from the UK or US.

What timbers have you steam bent personally ? Ash ? ...curious to how it bends.

Certainly, show us what you've done.

If you want to use traditional European timbers they can be readily obtained here in Australia. Australia has the largest amount of disease free (Dutch Elm Beetle) trees in the world. I have cut Australian-grown elm boards 800mm wide. One of my other threads shows an elm cupboard I made with single plank door panels that were 600mm wide. Elm is the traditional wood for Windsor seats as it's virtually impossible to split and a leg at each corner of an elm seat presents no problems.

I have cut and milled/riven dozens of Australian-grown ash trees too. Walnut, cherry and other fruitwoods such as pear, apple and plum were fairly common Windsor timbers and grow here in abundance. I haven't seen too many yews in Australia and I haven't milled any either.

**Woodwould** · 6th August 2008, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by IanW

...green wood & a bit of steam are a great combo... I certainly recommend getting your own green wood & splitting out the lengths you need - sawn wood is very dodgy unless it happens to follow the fibres very closely.

Good points and ones I omitted to mention. Other than the seat, all the other parts of a Windsor should be fashioned from green timber and riving (splitting) is the traditional and best method as sawn wood doesn't necessarily follow the grain. Any grain projection in steamed and bent components is asking for trouble.

Apart from the obvious technical reasons for using riven green wood, the unevenness of green wood spindles and bows when dried add aesthetically to the finished chair too. A uniform and perfectly symmetrical Windsor looks unnatural and factory-made.

Originally Posted by IanW

Chair-making is really satifying woodworking, isn't it? I like tackling all kinds, but Windsors are my favourite - unfortunately my SO prefers more 'formal' styles, but that's ok - I can make those too..... (Someday!

)
Cheers,

I too find chairs of all styles extremely satisfying to make and Windsors can certainly be some of the most rewarding.

**JDarvall** · 6th August 2008, 07:18 AM

Thanks kindly Ian and woodwind.

lots new to me there.... will understand eventually.

Blackwoods good. I can get that. I have to keep the cost down. Looking for something suitable and cheap. unfortunately it can't be something ideal and unusual. unaffordable.

Hoping there's something from work, you see I can use, because its a joinery and theres lots of offcuts that the boss calls waste, but is still way big enough for chairs. I can get it dirt cheap.

Pine for the seats no problems though.

The first I made was moreso to get my head around the angles. Get something made to stare at and think. so I chose what I had at the time. Its all bluegum

Carving it was a bit slow. Tried to steam bend the crest at first, but had much trouble generating enough steam and then was told blue gum won't steam bend well anyway. So I just laminated it.

Vitex supposed to bend well. Has anyone tried that ?

**IanW** · 6th August 2008, 09:02 AM

Jake - that's a pretty fine effort - about a thousand times better than my first go! And I'm deeply impressed by your neat carving of a chunk of bluegum - that's one tough wood! I think you got your turnings spot on - fine & crisp & well-delineated. My only mild criticism of it would be the back legs look like they could do with a bit more back-kick, but it may jst be the angle of the photograph. I find leg angles the hardest bit - still haven't come up with a foolproof way, because every style of seat & back seems to call for different leg angles, to look right. I usually make a rough seat blank out of scrap & experiment with a few positions & angles until I'm happy with it.

I reckon you are well on track, though, all the bits look very well-done - just stare at it a bit more & you'll decide if it needs a bit more splay here or there.

Woodwould's wood suggestions are good, but not very helpful to folks up our way. We might be able to score a bit of fruitwood by taking a long drive up through the Stanthorpe district, but not too many Elms north of Sydney, W/W! I once saw a whole paddock of apple trees dozed into windbreaks coming through, but couldn't stop, & wasn't able to go back & ask for a ute-load. They weren't huge trees, but certainly big enough to get a lot of turning blanks for chair parts. Glad I wasn't there to watch them burning ...

Cheers,

**Woodwould** · 6th August 2008, 10:23 AM

That's a highly commendable effort for a first attempt at a Windsor Jake! You haven't got much to learn at all. Sorry if my list of tantalising Victorian timbers aren't available to you northerners, but if there's any high ground (cooler climate) in your locality, you may find European trees growing there.

I have heard of seasoned timber being soaked in a quick-flowing stream for a period of time whereafter it was possible to rive it. I can't comment on the practicallity as I haven't tried it, but it may be an option if you were to buy imported European or Septic timber.

**Bloss** · 6th August 2008, 12:57 PM

One of the ACT Woodcraft Guild members gave a fine presentation at our last meeting on her experience at a residential workshop on the NSW central coast to make a Windsor Chair entitled:

Experiences of a Windsor Chair Making Workshop: Illustrated talk by Pat Robinson. Should be some more info on it in the next newsletter which can be downloaded from here:
http://www.woodcraftguild.org.au/index.php
(Click on Newsletters in list on left)
The course master and details are here:
http://www.rarechairs.com.au/
and for a holiday with a difference try:
http://www.norfolkisland.com.au/listings/?shop=423

So it seems there is at least some Oz interest and capability.

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