Thread: 3 phase in a small shed. Yea or Nay?

I'd upgrade the more doubtful tools
there's a lot of us folk out here who won''t ever get 3 phase and thus there is a ready market for 2nd hand tools
you can upgrade until the treasurer notices then get brownie points by pointing out that you've ebayed the old equipment

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

... less than a quarter of the space I currently have.
But I do have a long-term plan to stealthily infiltrate the garage, which is twice the largest size the new shed could be. SSSH! )

Even with the garage, you'll be half what you have now Any chance of going up?

On 3 phase, it would only be worth while if you can fit in the machinery and room to move around them.

build a yank style workshop with a mezzaninme level.

Echidna has a very good point. I had a garage in Coffs Harbour that was about 2 car size but not 2 car shape. Luckily ther was lots of air space so I laminated my own beams and built a mezzanine level. Worked a treat for storage.

So... the consensus is no 3 phase? I thought as much, but was still sorta hopeful. Ah well, so be it.

Going up is a possibility that I've been keeping in mind. To get it up quickly though, I'm working on a limit of $5000. More than that and I'll need council planning permission and we just won't have the time for red tape.. I'm hoping the council accepts the actual costing and not work on what "the average Joe Ignorant" would have to pay. [fingers Xed] I'm still trying to get that clarified; a simple question that I reckon I'll be lucky to have answered before we move.

I'll be pouring the slab myself and plan on laying 9" brick walls for the sides and back wall. A bricky mate will provide labour gratis, provided I have all the materials ready to hand [phew!] and I already have a couple of windows that were surplus to other jobs.

At this stage I'm thinking a simple beam and corro roof to keep the rain off... to keep costs down and to make it simple to go up a few years from now, if/once I can get planning permission for that.

(The Treasurer told me I could build a brick shed as a sop for losing so much space. I seriously doubt she has any idea of just how much mileage I can get out of that... hehehe!)

A good idea saving the pennies Tell SWMBO you're sticking to single phase, and as thrashed out, you've the $ set aside for the 3 phase for things you need for in the shed.

I've got 2 hands if needed and in return for your help this coming week.

My heartfelt condolences for your loss.

Councils often have "open space" rules. Are you sure that you can build on such a small area, whatever the $ value?

The council will go on the cost of materials & labour to see if it fits under the $5000 planning limit. That you have free labour is irrelevant.

The only way you will get around this is to have quotes for each of the component tasks.

Skew I think you will find it hard to put a second line into your house.

You should have put it there with the initial instalation, with the excuse of puting a 3 phase air con/ heater in. Then it would have been easy to run it to the existing garage and back shed.

Once the 3 phase is in they cannot take it away from you but to add in later is very expensive.

You have to put in a complete new line to the house, upgrade the fuse board and meters then run all the extra cableing.


3 phase is the go, I have a couple of machines running this way and dont have to worry about pushing them to their limits, like before that with the single phase you had to back of and take a couple of bites.

I have found three phase to be worth the trouble. All my major machinary except the bandsaw is three phase and it was all cheap compared to single phase, 400 amp stick welder $60, Swedish gear head pedestal drill $150, Esab Mig $400, Wadkin Bursgreen jointer $250 and so on, I am sure you get the picture. If you already have all the machinary you need then there is no advantage so to change over is not worth it.

Sorry for the Imperial dimensions. . . But, a two-story shed with about 400 sq ft (usable after deductions for walls and stair) for less than $5000? That's only $12.50 per sq ft, or about $135 per sq m. Is that consistent with council's benchmarks? Like Bob said, free labour probably isn't considered to be free.

In a perfect relationship (ha!), half of the garage should be yours anyway. Even with only 2.4m ceiling height, there should be some vacant air above most cars and trucks. I'm lucky enough to have about 9.5 ft (2.9m), so I'm considering a garage within the garage, with a half mezzanine for storage (all to be built in the dead of night, of course). Even the two-story shed would require separation of functions, so horizontal separation between a one-story shed and the half garage wouldn't be any worse; and there'd be no space penalty or extra exercise for the stairs.

Build shelves everywhere and put everything possible on wheels. Used filing cabinets are convenient for storage of hand-held power tools and other stuff, to maximise use of the vertical dimension. Welcome to the world of sliding-block puzzles. Slightly off-topic of the OP, but mebbe some food for thought. Best of luck.

Joe

Originally Posted by Jim Carroll

3 phase is the go, I have a couple of machines running this way and dont have to worry about pushing them to their limits, like before that with the single phase you had to back of and take a couple of bites.

That's partly why 3phase would've been the next upgrade to my current shed. And, as Mini said, the initial tool costs are quite a bit lower too. [sob!]

Originally Posted by joe greiner

Sorry for the Imperial dimensions. . . But, a two-story shed with about 400 sq ft (usable after deductions for walls and stair) for less than $5000?

No, it'll only be single story at this stage. And very, very basic to keep costs down below the $5000 limit as I'll need somewhere to put the tools straight away - they're how I pay the bills. (I'm not "allowed" to use the garage, not even temporarily. That'd be too simple. But we can't have the car sitting in the driveway, even though that's where it's been kept for the last ten years or so. Women! Who knows how they think? Even so... it shall be mine!)

The second story or any other modifications will be further down the line and I'll apply for planning permits as required. If they ever do happen, of course - I'm simply making allowances for it now so they can happen without major rebuilding.

Welcome to the world of sliding-block puzzles. Slightly off-topic of the OP, but mebbe some food for thought. Best of luck.

Yep, it's going to take some shoe-horning for sure. I've been spoiled with the space I have; which is too cramped as it is. Anyone have any instructions for building a T.A.R.D.I.S?

Originally Posted by echnidna

The council will go on the cost of materials & labour to see if it fits under the $5000 planning limit. That you have free labour is irrelevant.

That's what I'm worried about.

The only way you will get around this is to have quotes for each of the component tasks.

Well... I can write my own quotes. After all, it's part of what I do. But even if I put a realistic labour cost - measured in days rather than weeks, as it's mine, it's urgent and I'll work my fingers to the bone to get it done - then I'm concerned that the council will turn around and say it's unrealistic and slap their own value on the job.

Who's to say what realistic labour costs are? The bloke who does the labouring or some bloke on the council who thinks "well, it cost my accountant bros-in-law several thousand dollars to have his jacuzzi installed so for something twice the size..."?

I guess I can always get my mate to lay a pig in the wall or something, then tell the council it's a shonky job and I'm looking at litigation to get my money back...

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

So... the consensus is no 3 phase? I thought as much, but was still sorta hopeful. Ah well, so be it.

Going up is a possibility that I've been keeping in mind. To get it up quickly though, I'm working on a limit of $5000. More than that and I'll need council planning permission and we just won't have the time for red tape.. I'm hoping the council accepts the actual costing and not work on what "the average Joe Ignorant" would have to pay. [fingers Xed] I'm still trying to get that clarified; a simple question that I reckon I'll be lucky to have answered before we move.

I'll be pouring the slab myself and plan on laying 9" brick walls for the sides and back wall. A bricky mate will provide labour gratis, provided I have all the materials ready to hand [phew!] and I already have a couple of windows that were surplus to other jobs.

At this stage I'm thinking a simple beam and corro roof to keep the rain off... to keep costs down and to make it simple to go up a few years from now, if/once I can get planning permission for that.

(The Treasurer told me I could build a brick shed as a sop for losing so much space. I seriously doubt she has any idea of just how much mileage I can get out of that... hehehe!)

Skew,
I'm with Jim Carroll, justify the 3-phase on the basis of the (cheaper to run ?) air conditioner ! Your 3-phase tools are then just an incidential use.

as to your shed
I don't know where you are but check very carefully with your council's requirements
usually it's only prefab garden sheds that are exempt from the DA process AND you usually have to be at least 1.2m from the neighbour's fence
so your 4.5 x 4.5 has immediately become 3.3 x 3.3
you can go right up to the boundary if you include fire rated walls (I think the BCA specifies 1hr rated, hopefully someone else will know) BUT then you can't have windows UNLESS they are also fire rated, i.e. expensive


ian

Skew
our posts are overlapping, but

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

No, it'll only be single story at this stage. And very, very basic to keep costs down below the $5000 limit as I'll need somewhere to put the tools straight away - they're how I pay the bills. (I'm not "allowed" to use the garage, not even temporarily. That'd be too simple. But we can't have the car sitting in the driveway, even though that's where it's been kept for the last ten years or so. Women! Who knows how they think? Even so... it shall be mine!)

The second story or any other modifications will be further down the line and I'll apply for planning permits as required. If they ever do happen, of course - I'm simply making allowances for it now so they can happen without major rebuilding.

I'll think you'll find that no DA now — which would include engineering plans — means no second story at a later date

this might be the "killer" arguement for continued "ownership" of the garage


ian