Thread: Accident on the table saw

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

8 - assessed my work flow to reduce unnecessary body movements hence reduce fatigue.
9 - assessed the "what ifs" - what may potentially happen if an off cut becomes misaligned, jambs etc.

I don't have a TS any more but when I did, for years I found myself thinking of these as the two most important steps.

All the others were mechanical and built in to a design... but I always found myself thinking "what if this goes wrong" and then "where are the chunks flying" (timber, jigs, MINE!)...

Pretty sure everyone has been thwacked by a flying offcut to the guts/head, or had a kick that felt like a horse... so it came to the inevitable visualisation of "what if".

Not sure if that can be taught as it looks like daydreaming, but it helped me. As it was for poor RogerWilco, a lot of repetition led to a wandering mind (wonder how many ADHD people are snagged as a percentage?)

Point 8 is so important. Workflow isn't what most of us do, but when the kids furniture orders came in, or 100 pairs of bookends, it felt robotic. Twisting, turning and lifting repeatedly each had their own trip hazards (or kinks)... tripping while having a table saw on? yyiikkeess.....

RW, I was kidding when I selected "pictures please", but they do convey much

Originally Posted by orraloon

It's never good to have an injury but thanks for taking the time to remind the rest of us to be more aware around the bitey machines. Hope it heals up soon and without any loss of function.
I think most of us can get complacent about guards at times so you'r reminder really shows they are there for a reason. Currently I am having to force myself to use the Euro type guard on my jointer and it is nowhere as convenient as the pork chop guard on the old machine was. Been a few times lately where I've thought just one edge so a couple of passes at most so not used the guard then afterwards knowing I've been stupid.
Everything has risks and it's up to us to minimize them. Not using the guards is adding to them.
Regards
John

Its an easy trap. It’s weird timing in a way. My A3-31 just arrived, and a big reason I invested the $$$ is because I was giving my old one a fair workout, and the guard was broken. I just didn’t feel safe using it, and I felt it was a matter of time before I had some kind of accident.

uding the new machine had been really reassuring, and it’s so much safer.

I would say not feeling safe is a healthy way to be as it will make you careful around the machine. Being too comfortable is the trap.
Regards
John

Thanks for sharing this RW. I was thinking of getting rid of my table saw, as I only use it for ripping boards. But I have a bandsaw and a No 7 plane, so I don’t need the Table saw. You’ve convinced me, thanks!

This is a fine line but my take on using machinery is if you don’t feel safe you shouldn’t really be using a machine. There’s a difference between fear and respect. Fear of safety to me implies lack of thoroughly studying a situation and putting in place appropriate measures. A user needs to have some level of confidence that what the have considered and the measures they have taken and will take will work. Respect for what a machine is capable of is maybe more useful. Hair splitting? Maybe.

Originally Posted by BobL

This is a fine line but my take on using machinery is if you don’t feel safe you shouldn’t really be using a machine. There’s a difference between fear and respect. Fear of safety to me implies lack of thoroughly studying a situation and putting in place appropriate measures. A user needs to have some level of confidence that what the have considered and the measures they have taken and will take will work. Respect for what a machine is capable of is maybe more useful. Hair splitting? Maybe.

Not splitting hairs. I think you've articulated that perfectly. It's not that I was fearful of the old jointer/thicknesser per se. In fact quite the opposite. I was very thorough during commissioning it. I spent most of a day setting it up dialing everying thing in. I studied the manual—literally reading every page. I understood exactly how every knob, adjustment screw, roller, chain, and other feature on the machine worked. I worked on my technique. I made improvements to the machine. I was confident using it, and had a lot of respect for what could go wrong. The bit I was uncomfortable about was 'appropriate measures'. Because the euro style guard wasn't functional, I routinely used the machine with a fully exposed cutter head. I was alert and aware when doing so, but nonetheless I felt to continue doing that would be to push my luck.

It's easy to imagine an accident where a workpiece meets a bit more resistance than usual on the infeed table, push with a little more forward pressure, push block slips, fingers run into the cutter block. Now, I could have address the guard issue, by replacing parts, or fabricating new parts. A significant part of the decision to upgrade was that I could see I'd never be fully satisfied with the compromises and modifications. So it was the right time to solve all of those problems by upgrading. And a huge benefit of doing so, is knowing that all of the safety features of the new machine operate exactly as they should. And, moving from straight knives to helical is also somewhat safer in my opinion, because blades are sharper, stay sharp for longer, and are easier to change. This avoids a risk of carrying on for too long with blunt straight knives, which introduces it's own danger.

Bit of a rant there... but wanted to make the point that it was fear of not taking appropriate measures. Not fear from not understanding the machine.

The common accident we’ve seen on unguarded jointers is blokes getting their shirt tails pulled into the head, and so very many YouTube commandos I see get around their workshops with T shirts hanging out, just waiting to get caught. The old man was anal about it, lost count of the guys he yelled at to tuck your shirts in

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

The common accident we’ve seen on unguarded jointers is blokes getting their shirt tails pulled into the head, and so very many YouTube commandos I see get around their workshops with T shirts hanging out, just waiting to get caught. The old man was anal about it, lost count of the guys he yelled at to tuck your shirts in

Ah yeah, that's a good one!
I'm an overalls kinda guy. When I was 19 I worked for a year on the engine line at General Motors Holden before heading off to university. Overalls were standard issue, and I just got used to it.

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

The common accident we’ve seen on unguarded jointers is blokes getting their shirt tails pulled into the head, and so very many YouTube commandos I see get around their workshops with T shirts hanging out, just waiting to get caught. The old man was anal about it, lost count of the guys he yelled at to tuck your shirts in

My (relatively inexperienced) mate and I were building a bench for him and I left him alone for an hour using a big Makita belt sander to tidy up the top and bottom sides of the slab top. I'd watched him using the belt sander before so I thought he would be OK. When I got back he was still unpicking bits of his T-shirt from the sander. He was lucky that he let go of the trigger quickly and it sort of stalled. It still managed to shred the lower half oof his T-shirt but luckily no blood involved.

My little 2nd hand jointer has no guard. I've not got around to building one for it. I don't know if it is true but I've heard that more fingers are lost on jointers than on table saws.
The tool that "scares" me is the screaming banshee. You might know that under a different name. Other people refer to the screaming banshee as a router. I guess "scare" is the wrong word but I tell you what - it sure gets my attention when it's on and this is also why it almost always stays in the router table. (I do have a trimmer router as well). I'm not sure I subscribe to this theory that being scared of a power tool is the worst thing. I guess if you are literally scared of it to the point of lacking control of it, rather than just highly alerted by it, then yes, that's very bad. However I remember reading on here, that at a local men's shed, the tool most people injure themselves on is the bandsaw. Precisely because they did not perceive the danger of the bandsaw and got their fingers too close to the blade.

Originally Posted by DaveVman

.... However I remember reading on here, that at a local men's shed, the tool most people injure themselves on is the bandsaw. Precisely because they did not perceive the danger of the bandsaw and got their fingers too close to the blade.

Isn't that curious.

I would have thought the BS would be the safest. Its highly predictable, easy to use, doesn't fling things out as the "cut" is downward (generalisation), the cuts are neat and no kick-back. Its also not too noisy.... plus it makes an excellent sound when cutting plywood

Maybe they do crazy things on their BS, like cutting round things unsupported or tiny fliddy things so the fingers get close?


edit - Ive had a few blades snap which is alarming. I've also had a piece flip once using a tiny/thin blade. That was hairy, but the blade broke instantly, so nothing more than a "whew!".

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Isn't that curious.

I would have thought the BS would be the safest. Its highly predictable, easy to use, doesn't fling things out as the "cut" is downward (generalisation), the cuts are neat and no kick-back. Its also not too noisy.... plus it makes an excellent sound when cutting plywood

Maybe they do crazy things on their BS, like cutting round things unsupported or tiny fliddy things so the fingers get close?


edit - Ive had a few blades snap which is alarming. I've also had a piece flip once using a tiny/thin blade. That was hairy, but the blade broke instantly, so nothing more than a "whew!".

Well when you see some of the hair-brained things people do on a BS in a communal workshop you will understand why.

Fortuntely, I was not session supervisor when a member of the local wood turning club mangled a few fingers attempting to cut a cylinder (~ 100 mm long and ~70 mm dia I was told.) of branch wood on end while guiding / supporting it by hand. Pretty much a no no in any ones book. To top it off the base was not cut square to the branch so the top of the cylinder entered the blade first causing the cylinder to topple into the cut, dragging his hand in as well.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

...a member of the local wood turning club mangled a few fingers attempting to cut a cylinder (~ 100 mm long and ~70 mm dia I was told.) of branch wood on end while guiding / supporting it by hand. ....

Sadly I have been guilty of more or less the same thing. Also due to ignorance. Basically amounted to feeding a log in to the blade in a cross cut fashion while holding it by hand. Of course it caught and jammed. Which was the instant I knew for sure this was a really bad idea! To be honest my instincts were telling me something and so I had all body parts well clear. Hence only damage was a bent blade. Lessoned learnt without pain fortunately. It does sound stupid but back in the day, I had seen PVC pipes cut up with a bandsaw when I was a teenager and so I had this false concept of what you can get away with.

If it is any consolation, when you see what some tradies do on small residential work sites, us hobby sheddies are not the only ones with room for improvement on safety.

Originally Posted by rogerwilco

• Second, the accident didn't happen during the cut. I can't recall if I was putting the piece on the table before the cut, or picking it up after the cut. It doesn't really matter. The point is I wasn't paying due care that the saw was running. I was reaching for the piece when my finger grazed the top of the blade.

One question - Were you playing music or similar through headphones/earbuds at the time?

I play music in my shed most or the time I work,but turn it off when using large machines with sharp teeth, firstly because it allows me to be more situationally aware; and secondly because I can't hear the music over the machine anyway. I would never play music through headphones/earbuds in the shed.