Thread: Advise needed on Jointer/Thicknessers combo

I can't understand all the negativity with the ML 392, mine is fine and for a combo with 10" capacity on both functions for under a grand. What more do you need?

hi Gumby

I dont know what the fuss is either, but when i spoke to Carbatec Perth, they advised me that they wont even carry them on the floor because too many came back...i didnt ask more and we left it at that.

They did say however that the PT260 was recommended but having read the specs on the ML392, i prefer the 3 blade cutter instead of the 2 blade.

In any event, i guess my question was more about whether a combo unit had any disadvantes over two separate machines.

How do you find adjusting and readjusting the blades when switching between thicknessing and jointing??? any issues?

Incidently, what year is your model?

Cheers

Jeelan

I don't touch the blades when switching modes. Any combo machine which you needed to do that to wouldn't be worth buying.

Mine is about 18 mths old.

I've heard this Carba-tec speak before but the Melbourne store has them and Timbecon always seem to have them. I'm not aware of any forum members having to return theirs and apart from some minor initial problems, we haven't had any bad reports for yonks.

Make sure you read the thread titled The ongoing saga of the ML 392.

The advantage over separate machines is really a space thing I suppose. Cost as well when you consider the price of a 10" jointer to get the same capacity as the ML 392. It's up to you.

If I had the space and wasn't worried about cost, I'd have separate units simply for the convenience factor of not having to change modes. Having said that however, I'm only a muck around hobbyist so I enjoy my garage time and swtiching over isn't a problem.

I wouldn't get a P 260. The only one I've seen had table set up problems and is more difficult to change over modes. Not as good as the ML 392 IMHO.

A 3 blade motor is preferable as you mentioned. Replacement blades are cheap at around $35 too. Some others are a lot more expensive.

If you want a combo I strongly suggest spending a bit more cash. if you spend more you bet better fittings, closer tolerances, better load performance etc...

If you have the cash I'd suggest the Holz-Profi 310STP, Shepparch, Hammer Combo. All good machines with some variation, eg the Holz has 4 cutter knives, the hammer & schepparch 3 knives each, the shapparch has rubber outfeed wheels whcih some like but some dont. Note all are a tad more expensive than the ML392. However in performance its like a morris minor to a Porsche.

AWR has good combo reviews - a few issues back they did a combo review on the metabo, scheparch and another (cant remember the name), it was interesting that the ML392 was NOT included even though the size comparison to the three I just mentioned was almost exactly the same...

I personnally am of the opinion that its better to wait and get the best you can afford. I feel if you compromise your standards its no longer a joyful hobby, besides look at some of the other guys here - upgrading, getting better gear etc. in the long run if your serious then your better off with the good gear. besides if you decide woodworking aint for you - resale on the good stuff is far better.

I suggest the holz-profi as the pick of my discussion - better even than the Hammer - I'd rate it against the felder of similar size except in slick sexiness to look at... (sorta like the difference between a red ferrrari and a yellow one )

hope this helps.

Buy Separate units
- Combination machines are more fiddly with having to move dust extraction chutes etc

-You have to in and out feed from both ends of the machine so in some ways they can be less space eficient that the alternative.

-Table length is usually shorter than for the same capacity machine.

-You would normally have a thicknesser that has a wider capacity than
your Jointer (verry handy)

-There is a problem if you like to move from one process (jointing) directly to another (Thicknessing) and back again all the time.

-I bet you can pick up second hand individual machines for less money than a new combo.

-Less time between blade changes

Ross

Originally Posted by Different

-You have to in and out feed from both ends of the machine so in some ways they can be less space eficient that the alternative.

I don't see how two can take up the same space as one.:confused:

Originally Posted by Different

-I bet you can pick up second hand individual machines for less money than a new combo.

Or a second hand combo for less than that again. But you rarely see them advertised.

Originally Posted by Different

- Combination machines are more fiddly with having to move dust extraction chutes etc

HP 310STPV is a quick "bang bang" and your done... literally less than 60secs..

Originally Posted by Different

-You have to in and out feed from both ends of the machine so in some ways they can be less space eficient that the alternative.

I have to disagree here - I use one machine and only need one metre on each side, put it on wheels which I have and you've got excellent space management...

Originally Posted by Different

-Table length is usually shorter than for the same capacity machine.

again not true on my machine. the HP310STPV has tables that are as long as a 12" carbatec jointer and flip up besides therefore no misalignement on table return - another bonus you dont get on other machines, the thicknesser table is also about 900mm long... which in my opinion is ample.

otherwise sone excellent points Ross.

Zed, any rough ideas as to how much more expensive your choices are?

ZED - point noted about the Scheppach and similar brands, however, at this point i cant justify the increased expense in purchasing what is essentially machinery for professionals rather than hobbyists.

Had a read of the thread that Gumby suggested. Seems to me that the problems associated with the 392 are predominantly from the Carbatec based units.

Anyone had any issues with the Timbecon units??? One of the threads suggested that timbecon had already upgraded the bearings on the 392 mid July 05 or so.

Alternatively i was looking at their ML393 units, they look sweet and possibily something i could look at...

Has anyone had any experience with the 393??

I guess i have to wait till Wed before i can ring and speak to someone at Timbecon personally.

cheers
Jeelan

Originally Posted by Solaris

Anyone had any issues with the Timbecon units??? One of the threads suggested that timbecon had already upgraded the bearings on the 392 mid July 05 or so.

Mate, i'm not trying to sell you one but I think the bearing issue seemed to be restricted to only a couple of machines. Besides, good bearings are readily available locally and pretty cheap. I have a suspicion the Carba-tec story was only around because they didn't have any for sale. They put them back in stock not long after this went around last time so you'd have to be asking why they did that if they weren't happy with the machines.

Tarzan's mate is correct though, spend more, you get better quality. However i had the same problem as you are facing - how to justify the extra when i only paddle around out there for my own enjoyment. If I need to upgrade later, I'm sure I could sell the ML 392 for a reasonable price anyway. It's not as if the money just disappears completely. Around 60% of it can be recouped quite easily.

Originally Posted by outback

Zed, any rough ideas as to how much more expensive your choices are?

the below discussion is from memory - I couldnt be farked looking thru the back issues and getting the exact details...

the shceparch is list in carbatec catalogue at 4.1k, not sure if its inc gst or not. the AWR review listed it as a serious hobbyist machine with rubber outfeed rollers. its only got 2 knives... and the base is just pressed metal.

the metabo I seem to remember was a SLIGHTLY larger unit for not too much more cash. it was according to the review in AWR "slightly underpowered" but had a better fence.

I think the 3rd unit I alluded to was the Kity but dont quote me... again from memory of the AWR it was a tad more than the shepparch. If I remember correctly it was sorta like second place in all categories. however it was a bit roughly put toegether but did have a cast table. ????

I remember when I was reading it that I wanted a composite of the 3 units above - more power, slightly better build and size... which is why I settled on the holz profi which is a far better machine, by far!

the holz profi I will refrain from naming the price on... lets just say its a bit more, dont forget to add GST. AWR did a review of its big brother the 410STPV and they thought it was a "no nonsense well put together machine". hence my purchase. its got 4 knives, can take 8mm in once pass and weighs 268kg!! if you really want the price contact Hans Rauter on 03 9801 7728.

its horses for courses of course - plastecine man is right, hobby is as hobby does.... I too am a hobbyist but I get off on nice gear, I have a policy of only buying once by buying well and I was lucky that I had a bit of bonus cash to spend.... (whcih is now gone by the way!! ) as they say the pain of spending is soon forgotten but the pleasure of using.... Im now trying to talk myself in to a hammer sliding tablesaw... I wonder what the missus will say when I quote the price of THAT unit!!!

Thanks Zed, I'm a bit like you, I try to buy once, and buy well, but 5k is a lotta bananas.
I'm thinkin SWMBO would cut off my privelges entirely if I tried it on.

If ya can afford the Hammer, get it, you know ya wanna.

I agree with Different on a couple of things.

In my experience a dedicated thicknesser will accept wider widths than the average "priced for the home workshop" combo job. Or any jointer, for that matter. If I could find a (relatively) inexpensive 14" jointer it'd have pride of place in my shop. As I see it, it works out more cost efficient to have a 14" thicknesser and a "normal" jointer than the equivalent 14" combo. (Errmmm... the 14" value is just something I pulled out of my butt. It's the size of my thicknesser. Substitute your own value if it makes you feel better. )

Secondly, it's soooo much easier to switch between machines than to swith between modes. I don't know about the rest of you, but there've been times I've had to switch back'n'forth a few times. usually due to operator error, but could you imagine how much worse the same eror would be if I introduced a few extra steps in setting up between modes? :eek:

Thirdly, the combo jobs I've seen have in/out tables which are OK for a thicknesser... but a wee tad too short (IMHO) to do a decent job on a jointer. Let's face it, the longer the in/outfeed (within limits), the more accurately a jointer can be set up. Snipe is usually associated with poorly set outfeed heights, but short tables can also be a major factor.

Mind you, I'm talking about what's available in the "home handyman/light industrial" range. If you have ten grand or so to throw at a machine I'm sure the above would become moot. But then I'd be more concerned at getting enough production out of it to pay the mortgage than I would be in getting the best possible result per individual item...

Production vs. Quality. The saga continues.

Originally Posted by Different

-You would normally have a thicknesser that has a wider capacity than
your Jointer (verry handy)

Can sombody explain this one please? I can't see the advantage. If you have a jointer of say 8", then that's the widest timber you can flatten isn't it? No point in having a thicknesser of 12" in that case.

As a 'great' woman once said, "please explain".