Thread: Alternatives to pocket hole joinery?

If it's for a bed, just use knockdown bed fittings like this:

http://www.bunnings.com.au/prestige-...-pack_p3961681

to connect the side rails to the head/foot boards, and possibly some connectors like this:

http://www.bunnings.com.au/prestige-...-pk4-_p2317809
http://www.bunnings.com.au/prestige-...-pack_p4011891
http://www.bunnings.com.au/prestige-...-pack_p4013005

if there are other large bits you want to join but breakdown.

Those bolts and screw in inserts are exactly what I was thinking about! Just didn't know what to search for to find them. They're rather expensive though aren't they :/, would really add up..

Do those bed fitting things hook into each other? Or is there a separate plate that I will need to get? Can't quite tell from the picture of the packaging on the site.

P.s. Thanks for the Bunnings website links! I use Bunnings site as if it's the woodworking bible :/ lol

They are cheaper when you buy them by the 1,000, I believe, but you just need one pack for a bed. Yes, they hook into each other.

I shall remember that if I ever go into mass production of these beds :P..

But now that I think about it, if I just use these in a few strategic places, then use dowels and glue for most other joints, that should be an efficient way of doing things..

Thanks for the links!

If you're looking for a cheaper source of these items, but not in the 1000's, then check out http://elraco.com.au.
A while back I needed cross dowels for a project and got about 20 for the same price as a 4 pack from Bunnings.
You do have to factor in freight but that's pretty cheap especially if you end up buying more than you originally planned - and who doesn't?

oooo thanks for the Elraco link, was getting sick of paying stupid prices for tiny quantities at the green shed. I think my local is getting rid of all their loose nuts & bolts in favour of the small overpriced blister packs.

Hi, I have looked at the bed link and would not use pocket hole techniques with it. From the link pics, they have used pocket holes for the spreader/step between the stair platform and the bed base, and probably in a similar position at the opposite end as well, and most likely connecting the bed rails to the posts. While I am generally happy with the use of pocket holes for non structural applications where the pockets can be concealed, I don't believe they are adequate for that application, if your construction medium is softwood.

I would suggest connector joinery as suggested by Master Splinter, but in a variation as outlined below.

I would not use screw in threaded inserts in end grain connections, as there would be a tendency for them to split the timber in use, if not in construction, leaving the potential for a collapse.

Since I suspect that your posts will be 90mm square, 100mm connector bolts will not be long enough to connect to the barrel nuts that would be placed about 40mm back from the end of the horizontals. I do not believe that you can buy normal connector bolts longer than 100mm, but you can buy connector cap nuts with a similar head shape. I would suggest each junction be formed with 2 barrell nuts and two extended connector bolts made by locktiting a connector cap nut and an appropriate length of 6mm althread rod together to get the approximately 130-140 mm length required.

It would also be helpful to form a shallow mortice in the uprights to accommodate te full cross section of the horizontals if possible, 8-10mm depth would be adequate. then the mortice and tenon formed carry the weight and the connector bolts ensure that the horizontals cannot cone out of the mortice and collapse.

I could make a sketch of a typical joint cross section and post it if that would make the above easier to understand.

Well, I've had a really good think about this. Its a good problem.

I agree with both sides, but disagree too.

The article was good and also evolved to accommodate a structural/safety issue with the stairs, but that said, it was very interesting to read it was made using pocket holes/screws.

Bad say brain, use big bolts.... But says brain, I've seen and used a LOT of Dominos and know first hand how phenomenally strong a few of them can be. SERIOUSLY strong and the new big XL Domino must be crazy strong. So Mr Brain went back to bolts.... BUT this isn't some feat of public engineering, its a kids bunk bed.

So, I thought about projects I've done like this and my OWN SHED came to mind... hmmmm.

On my left, until recently, were a length of shelves, whacked up upon moving in, using only 90x45 MGP10's and gyprock screws. I'd predrilled the holes for the screws at about 45° to sink the head in and did this looooong before I knew anything about pocket screws. So, wheel reinvented.

Now, this structure had about 3 of these screws in each join, in rough as guts 90° joins and held up a phenomenally ridiculous quality of stuff... seriously heavy boxes full of very heavy tools... no groans, no breaks, no movement.

I've since bought some "coarse" Kreg screws that are 2" and 3" long to use in table jobs. In pine, at an angle, with their big flat heads, they will hold a LOT more than the crappy bugle heads of the gyprock screws I used. I'd think (!!) that the ability to tear out a flat headed kreg screw would be seriously hard to do.

I say go for it - Use the monster coarse Kreg screws.

http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/ and the difference in heads for the Kreg compared to standard screws (its like a washer as Mathias points out in the article)

38502-03-1000.jpg

[QUOTE=Evanism;1838609]Well, I've had a really good think about this. Its a good problem.



Now, this structure had about 3 of these screws in each join, in rough as guts 90° joins and held up a phenomenally ridiculous quality of stuff... seriously heavy boxes full of very heavy tools... no groans, no breaks, no movement.


Ahh, yes, BUT, your shelves haven't had a boy jiggling and wobbling (just had a bad thought about using those words in relation to a boy in a bed! ) the living daylights out of it slowly but surely breaking all your joints apart. Once there is minor movement the parts lever against one another to make the whole structure a pile of parts in no time at all.
If it has to be knocked down I'm for the bed brackets.

I used pocket holes (Kreg) to make indoor tables, outdoor tables and all the work benches in my shed (6m of them including the SCMS station) and they take a proper beating. The kids regularly jump on the indoor tables (they are in our family room), the outdoor tables are exposed to the weather and the work benches have a huge amount of weight on them (and get moved around). Nothing has given way yet so I'm pretty confident that they are strong joints.

I recently got hold of the beadlock floating tenon system as well. I wanted to try an alternate to the Kreg pocket hole solution simply because I got tired of plugging the pocket holes. Getting hold of screws wasn't a problem but constantly filling pocket holes to maintain aesthetics was becoming an issue (as I got better at making stuff I was less and less content with things not looking right).

I've only made one table with the beadlock system so far, but it shows some promise. Quicker than making a true MT, but it can be a bit tricky to position and without the router bit to create your own floating tenons the cost of the tenons can add up quickly.

If you are after good quality long strong bolts, you can look at these which are 150mm long and usually used for benches.
http://www.carbatec.com.au/veritas-s...h-bolts_c21090
Les