Thread: Alternatives to pocket hole joinery?

Sometimes things come in three's. There was a thread that mention screws for pocket holes and pointed to this site as a source of pocket hole screws.


http://www.screwit.com.au/Shop/pocket-hole-screws


The original thread is here, https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...et+hole+screws

So not really an alternative to that system of securing pieces together.

I bought a Kreg Kit to do some cupboards in a caravan. Yes the screws provided are good but you can substitute and ordinary 8# self tapper of correct length. You may have to use Phillips head instead of square hole but they will work. I also bought a face frame clamp from CarbiTec to make assembly easy.

The original post asked for alternatives for pocket hole joinery...

Isn't a pocket hole a cheap and nasty way to do a mortice and tenon joint, a housing joint, or even a dowel joint? I would never substitute pocket holes for these sots of joint unless I was trying to span a previously constructed space... Eg adding a shelf to an existing cupboard, for instance.

Even then, what about sliding hardwood dowels? one could rout an access slot or hole at the end of the stretcher/shelf, use the slot to push the dowel into the joint and then plug the slot or hole with a matching timber for an invisible joint.

Jorge

I am not a fan of pocket joinery, although it does have its uses.

There a few tricks to using the system. (Face Frames)

The Kreg drill bit drills a clearance hole for the washer head Kreg screw and a clearance hole for the shank of the Kreg screw. It is best to drill so that the clearance part of the bit just barely protrudes from the piece. This prevents "mushrooming" between the parts of the joint. The step drill has about a 5/8" (16 mm) long bit for the clearance and is a #7 or #8 size screw. The large part of the drill is 3/8" (9.5 mm) in diameter and drills a flat bottom hole. This drill bit is rather aggressive and requires the Kreg jig or similar to keep the bit aligned.

Good glue to hold end grain to edge grain. For me, TiteBond III works very well. (On Poplar and White Oak)

Clamps with two flat faces on Vice Grips. (Sometimes called welders clamp.) The two flat faces are placed across the joint to keep them aligned/flat.

Finally the Kreg screws. This is hard to accept but the screws are a significant design improvement over other screws. The Kreg screws are truly self drilling and a clamping device. The screws come in coarse thread (soft wood) and fine thread (hard wood). If a substitute screw is used, the results are not as professional. Using a typical flat head screw is a recipe for disaster. Ordinary fillister head, sheet metal head or round head screws are a better choice but not really the best choice. The Kreg screw drills the pilot hole and truly acts as a hidden clamp that is left in the work. The head of the screw is a washer head and really applies pressure to the joint.

There has to be an enterprising individual or company that is willing to import a few pallets of screws. Even as an experiment to gauge local interest.

the alternative to pocket hole joinery would be something like the festool domino...but really both these, the domino and pocket holes are the alternatives to traditional joinery.

Of course you can do the same thing as Festool Domino's without the expensive equipment - loose tenons. Build your own adjustable jig; purchase a suitable router (if you don't already have one); cut your mortice's using solid carbide upcut or compression bits using your jig; make your tenon stock in long lengths using bull nose router bits; improves your setout skills without making highly critical demands; cheap; strong. What more could you ask for?

As mentioned above, ANYTHING is an alternative to, and probably better than, pocket holes. Dowels are my first choice because I don't think Domino is worth the cost.

I agree with the above post. Pocket hole joinery was traditionally a cheap and nasty option to real joints. The Kreg are a pretty sophisticated and improved version but still .... I have used the domino and know those who adore it. If you are wealthy it has some advantages, and in some circumstances it is better than most other choices, but, the COST! Traditional mortise and tenon is hard to beat for strength and there are lots of ways to do them. If the mortises are a challenge then look at a cheap chisel mortise machine perhaps. That has been my path, and it works for me. I also have a Masters brand 909 doweller and that also comes in handy for decent joints, not a Domino, but only $99 when I bought it!


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I have the small Domino and an increasing collection of Kreg stuff. Both are absolutely unbeatable for their applications.

A mate has a DowellMax (spelling?) and I've seen it in action. It looks excellent too.

There was a time when M+T by hand was my thing, but the Domino stopped that.

Everything from now decends into a religious argument.

As a user of most systems, I can say each is EXCELLENT. I use the domino for chairs and they will-not-break. I use the Kreg for face frames and kitchen/garage cabinetry and it's fantastic... Build time is an hour, not 12. I also use the flat headed screws in my 900 year old fences to keep them up. It use the Kreg screws in my kids tables for the skirting and leg braces...I can make stuff in 2 hours that took a day. The screws look excellent too.

There are threads on strength tests, but in my mind it's all crap. Each system is very strong when used for the right purpose in the right way.

So it's:

- mortise + tenon
- dowelmaxx
- domino
- Kreg
- little $20 dowelmax drill plate jobbie from Bunnings (curse them in all ways)

Loose tenons are easy if you have a router, the bit and buy the festool dominos but for least equipment/experience required and ease of use dowels must be right up there. I'd try dowels first for those reasons, total cost might be $20 if you already have a drill.

As evanism said all those systems have their purpose and 99% of the time will be fine.

Nothing wrong with pocket hole joints in the right applications - Kreg did not invent them. In the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York there is a 200+ year old chest of drawers which has been disassembled, and the top was secured with pocket hole screws. Paul Sellers pulled apart a 19th century small table in a video, and the top was secured with pocket hole screws. Kreg designed a jig that works well, but you could do it freehand

Cheers
Peter

Link stolen from another thread on this forum, which I cant find at the moment!

Here's what you do if you want a strong joint:

http://pacificpostbeam.com/2012/05/2...ar-connection/

"Incredibly, there was very little deformation while under a 40,000 lbs load! ...test was stopped because the limits of the equipment had been reached."

Always knew I was different

I love my Kreg pocket hole jig and screws as well as my Makita biscuit jointer.

Have not had any failures where I have used them and being Irish by nature (to be sure to be sure) I have often used pocket hole screws into joins which have been biscuited or loose tenoned. I do only use the pocket screws where they can't be seen.

By the way, I always use glue as well - nothing wrong with being glued and screwed.

Originally Posted by Heavansabove

Nothing wrong with pocket hole joints in the right applications - Kreg did not invent them. In the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York there is a 200+ year old chest of draws which has been disassembled, and the top was secured with pocket hole screws. Paul Sellers pulled apart a 19th century small table in a video, and the top was secured with pocket hole screws. Kreg designed a jig that works well, but you could do it freehand

Cheers
Peter

While that may be true, many people use pocket holes for structural or semi-structural work and that's plain bad practise.