Thread: Am I wasting my time with a dowel jig?

Michael,
I used an earlier model years ago before I got my Ozijig, with reasonable success. You're right in that it probably needs quite a bit of familiarisation before expecting super accuracy, but it's better than trying to dowel by eye.

Every time I think of dowel jigs I'm glad I don't own one!!

Have you looked at the Kreg pocket hole system?/ Far superior
or what you are thinking of doing with screws. Look it up on the
net.

Biscuit jointing should do the job for you also.

Are you wasting your time? I can say, without a shadow of a doubt: "yes and no."

I use just such a jig for drilling the holes on one side... using it purely to ensure that I'm drilling straight & square.

Then I use these thingummies. Dowel Centre Points.

Drop them in the holes, carefully line up the other piece and a tap with a hammer... Bingo! Accurately marked.

Then you can either use the jig on those marks or - if you trust your hand-eye skills - drill freehand.

Much more accurate.

I own a dowel jig, not the same brand as yours, and I find it a bit painful, if I adjust and fiddle I can get it close but arrrgghhhh....

With the screws as you have them orientated you will be screwing into end grain which as little holding power, to use the screws as shown good practice is to use your dowels in the recieving piece of wood placed at right angles to the wood and inline with the screws which you then screw the screws into, effectively then you will be screwing into cross grain of the dowel or if you do the pocket hole thing you will be screwing into the long grain of the other piece of wood.....clear as mud???


Pete

This place is amazing, so much knowledge & people willing to share it. Thank you all.

Originally Posted by graemet

....better than trying to dowel by eye.

This is true.

Originally Posted by artme

Have you looked at the Kreg pocket hole system?

Biscuit jointing should do the job for you also.

Kreg system looks good, not as pricey as I expected (at least the US price) will add it to my wish list. I was looking at biscuit joiners but wasn't impressed with the cheapies and not enough funds for a good one, hence the dowel jig.

Also, Wikipedia has informed me that what I was suggesting was more of a screwed butt joint with a particularly deep recess as opposed to a pocket screw, which goes in on an angle. Butt joint - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

...Then I use these thingummies. #Dowel Centre Points...

Aha! Those came with my kit, forgot all about them. Thought the jig would be more accurate but I will experiment.

Originally Posted by pjt

..to use the screws as shown good practice is to use your dowels in the recieving piece of wood placed at right angles to the wood and inline with the screws which you then screw the screws into...

Interesting, found a neat illustration of what you have described and what sounds like a logical name: Dowel Anchored Butt Joint! Looks like a good compromise, might give it a shot. Dowel-anchored butt joint - Fine Homebuilding Tip

I also considered using my router to create half-lap joints and then gluing & screwing. Many ways to skin this cat, not something that needs to look particularly good, just a little project to learn in. Thanks again to everyone for the dowel jig sympathy and constructive tips.

I have just bought an Ozito Biscuit Jointer from the big green rabbit hutch.

$79 and from what I saw looking at a few others and giving them some really
good scrutiny it is not a bad buy. I have yet to use it.

The reason for the purchase was for some board jointing I have to do.

As for the Kreg, I have the simplest version And It works well but is fiddly in
comparison to the high end version. My brother made a large tabletop from
Pine that he joined using the Kreg. Also did the rails with the Kreg.
Beautiful strong unit when finished!

Had similar problems with the various dowel jigs I used over the years. I'm told that if you buy a great jig ... and if you are both skilled and careful ... they will work ... or so I'm told. However, I found them too fiddly and I sometimes doubt the strength of dowel joints. Eventually, I decided to move away from dowel joints, looking for something stronger and which was less fiddly to get right.

For jobs like yours I generally make dado or rebate joints where the board is recessed into the frame and/or biscuit joints (often, I'll double biscuit for additional strength, sometimes in two staggered rows) or I make mortice and tenon joints. On occasion, pocket screws are used also.

As a relative novice I avoided mortice and tenon joints for a long time, but eventually capitulated and bought a morticer. The tenons are cut with a dado blade. Turns out these joints are not at all difficult to make, and of course, are strong.

Dowel joints are now rare in my shop. They are used occasionally when I want to add strength to (say) a screwed and glued joint, but that's about all.

Bear in mind that I don't have the years of experience and training that some of the blokes here have. However, since I all but abandoned dowel joints (which have their place occasionally) I am a happier with my work, which also is stronger.

Cray-, for little money you can get the Kreg minijig pocket hole kit from Carbatec. This is a single hole jig that you clamp to your timber with your own clamp, the drill bit and the stop collar and key for it. You would need to establish the required setback from the end of the timber to place the jig (varies with timber thickness), and buy a packet of appropriate length screws (again varies with timber thickness) and a square head driver. $50 would come close to getting you through this project and avoid a lot of saving to get a kit from local or US sources. Mini is still handy to have for tricky bits even if you have the Master kit, so the investment is not wasted.

If you go this way, the pocket holes are parallel with the grain so the screw thread in blind hole of the crosspiece ends up cross grain, i.e screws oriented 180 degrees from your picture, much better holding ability. Pay out for genuine screws, rather than using countersunk or bugle heads, the cs style heads work as a wedge and tend to split the timber at the joint and the square drive heads are a godsend when working blind in the pocket.

Originally Posted by artme

I have just bought an Ozito Biscuit Jointer from the big green rabbit hutch.

$79 and from what I saw looking at a few others and giving them some really good scrutiny it is not a bad buy. I have yet to use it.

I thought the whole fence(?) arrangement on the front of the cheaper models looked a bit ....agricultural. Seemed like something that you'd want to be nice and precise. I've got nothing against Ozito/Ryobi/etc, they fit my budget and are capable of getting the job done with a bit of care.

My thought process (possibly flawed) was that before biscuit jointers existed, people used dowels. A dowel jig is a hell of a lot cheaper than a good biscuit jointer, let's give it a crack!

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Had similar problems with the various dowel jigs I used over the years. I'm told that if you buy a great jig ... and if you are both skilled and careful ... they will work ... or so I'm told. However, I found them too fiddly and I sometimes doubt the strength of dowel joints. Eventually, I decided to move away from dowel joints, looking for something stronger and which was less fiddly to get right.
...
Bear in mind that I don't have the years of experience and training that some of the blokes here have. However, since I all but abandoned dowel joints (which have their place occasionally) I am a happier with my work, which also is stronger.

I like the idea of dowels, I like when you can see cut off dowels on end pieces, I like the price. I think they have their place and can be used successfully for the right job. I don't think the frame I'm making is the right job, the pieces are too small and narrow, not enough surface area to clamp everything up and keep the jig in place. The jig also has too much flex, it's only plastic after all.

Originally Posted by malb

Cray-, for little money you can get the Kreg minijig pocket hole kit from Carbatec.
...
If you go this way, the pocket holes are parallel with the grain so the screw thread in blind hole of the crosspiece ends up cross grain, i.e screws oriented 180 degrees from your picture, much better holding ability. ...

I'm definitely going to keep the Kreg pocket hole kit in mind, they look like they could come in handy.

I've learnt a lot just from this small exercise and all of the suggestions. The whole concept of screwing into end grain hadn't occurred to me. With this in mind, I'll definitely be considered my joins a bit more carefully. Thank you all for your help.

I thought that I'd just meander into the fray.... I started out with the Haron jig, but it never really worked well. I bought a cheapie biscuit joiner, which I used until it expired.. it got quite a workout, and I saved and bought something decent. Where you really notice it is in the quality of the fence. I also have the mini kreg pocket jig, which is useful for various projects. Recently, I splashed out and got a dowelmax, which is an excellent bit of engineering and design. SO - am I in a position to say one is the best/most useful/hopeless? Kinda. Each comes into its own for various projects, and of course no size fits all. If I had to pick one, I would say after doing many different projects requiring different joinery techniques, the decent dowelling jig comes up trumps. Others may beg to differ (as they should!). I think it comes down to what you want to do, and how much you want to spend..

cheers, Regan

Most things in woodwork require a bit of skill and practice, the doweling jig is no different.
One tip I can give you is this. When you drill your holes I find drilling into end grain to be the most problematic and more likely to run out of line a little as you drill. My solution is to drill these first (end grain) then use the little center point things to mark across onto the side grain pieces. If there is any error from drilling the end grain you will transfer that error accurately to the side grain. The side grain should drill a lot easier and the drill wont drift off the mark, the parts should then match up perfectly.

They are great for shelves and the like where the construction of the whole piece isn't reliant on the strength of the dowels, maybe not so good for the carcass. I have a buscuit joiner and find the fit of the biscuits to be a bit too sloppy and inaccurate. A bit of slop can be helpful for alignment but can also cause problems at the worst time like during a glue up. Dowels tend to be more accurate in my opinion. All depends what your doing, both have their advantages. Get on and do it, you will learn along the way.

Originally Posted by malb

Cray-, for little money you can get the Kreg minijig pocket hole kit from Carbatec. This is a single hole jig that you clamp to your timber with your own clamp, the drill bit and the stop collar and key for it.

I have one of these and they are great however given that you need this carcass to have some strength (presumably) i wouldn't use screws in this instance. The dowels will give you superior strength to just about anything other than a mortise and tenon, provided you use enough of them of course.

The problem with screws as some of the other guys already mentioned is that they wont provide much strenght/grip in the end grain, as for biscuit joints they aren't great for strength either, at least not in this case. They are good for alignment when gluing boards but their surface area is too small to add much strength here, even if they do provide some long grain to glue to.

I would stick with the dowels unless you have a router or a mortiser to do mortise and tenon joints. I have used a self centering type which carbatec sell for about $49 with mild success, the problem with it was that it wasn't super accurate with hole alignment, sometimes they would be out by .5mm or up to 1mm which was annoying but a little sanding solved that problem.

The stools project is here is you are interested, it involved a LOT of double dowel joints, similar to your work and the stools are still holding together well despite some heavy users.


Good Luck.
Mat

Originally Posted by justplanesilly

SO - am I in a position to say one is the best/most useful/hopeless? Kinda. Each comes into its own for various projects, and of course no size fits all. If I had to pick one, I would say after doing many different projects requiring different joinery techniques, the decent dowelling jig comes up trumps.

Definitely, if you're lucky enough to have the choice then it's important to choose the right tool for the job. If you're still figuring out which tool is right, like me, then it's a case of learning what to buy next. Or learning how to get the job done with what you've got.

I've done a bit of both in this thread.

Originally Posted by Ausworkshop.

Most things in woodwork require a bit of skill and practice, the doweling jig is no different.
One tip I can give you is this. When you drill your holes I find drilling into end grain to be the most problematic and more likely to run out of line a little as you drill. My solution is to drill these first (end grain) then use the little center point things to mark across onto the side grain pieces.
...
Get on and do it, you will learn along the way.

Good tips, Dad says the same thing "you learn by doing". His DIY attitude is one of the things I'm most grateful for inheriting.

Originally Posted by Lplates

...I would stick with the dowels unless you have a router or a mortiser to do mortise and tenon joints. I have used a self centering type which carbatec sell for about $49 with mild success, the problem with it was that it wasn't super accurate with hole alignment, sometimes they would be out by .5mm or up to 1mm which was annoying but a little sanding solved that problem.

The stools project is here is you are interested, it involved a LOT of double dowel joints, similar to your work and the stools are still holding together well despite some heavy users.

I do have a little Ozito router (gets the job done) but I'll save M&T for another job. I was looking at that self centering Carbatec jig (wish they had a store near me), it looks perfect for getting dowels centered but there seems to be no provision to use the dowels on one piece to help align the other. You're down to careful measurements and the placement of the jig. Probably not so bad, especially if you can butt it up against the end of the work piece. I may still get one of these (along with the Kreg pocket kit), it would have made the other job I'm working on a hell of a lot easier.

I enjoyed reading your barstools thread, the way you figured it all out as you went along was easy to relate to. The mistakes weren't setbacks so much as opportunities to learn and the end product was top notch.