Thread: American woodworkers

Originally Posted by Shedhand

Isn't it great that we live in a democracy that allows you to dribble such crap in public. In Singapore or the good 'ol USofA the secret police would be bangin' on your door if you dared speek the truth. A dill like G W Bush was elected Prez..I rest my case.
PS. stating a view that you don't like can't be construed as ignorance or bias...MATE....

Why not?

You feel free to characterise my opinion as "crap". Why can't I state that your opinion is biased ignorance?

Please note: I'm not making an observation about you as an individual - just stating that your stated opinion seems to be biased. "Ignorance never settles a question" [Disraeli]

Originally Posted by DPB

Why not?

You feel free to characterise my opinion as "crap". Why can't I state that your opinion is biased ignorance.

Please note: I'm not making an observation about you as an individual - just stating that your stated opinion seems to be biased. "Ignorance never settles a question" [Disraeli]

In the original post which started the discussion I simply asked as question based on a personal observation...i.e, "Why are Americans so fixated on...." blah, blah. I re-read what I wrote and for the life of me I can't see any evidence of ignorance and bias!

Originally Posted by DPB

Why not?

You feel free to characterise my opinion as "crap". Why can't I state that your opinion is biased ignorance.
Please note: I'm not making an observation about you as an individual - just stating that your stated opinion seems to be biased. "Ignorance never settles a question" [Disraeli]

I thought it was going to be one I could sit back and watch this time.

Then I saw the attempted escape clause at the bottom.

The thing about generalisations is that people will always make them. Americans are loud, Aussies are lazy, Germans have no sense of humour, Chinese are wise and so on. Where do these ideas come from and why are they so common? There has to be something in it.

It would be very difficult to imagine anybody being able to shed themselves of ALL prejudices. I think it would be impossible to have an opinion about anything without a healthy set of preconceived ideas. Your beliefs are what define you.

Anyway, my point was that there are quite a few things about American society AS A WHOLE which I believe there are good reasons (as opposed to "no good reason") to dislike. In fact, I bet if you spoke to a lot of Americans, they would agree that the image their country has at the moment needs work.
That does not mean that I do not have the capacity to admire Americans that I have met or read about or seen on TV. I think I can hold these two seemingly opposing views with little or no conflict and without bias.

But my final point was that none of this has anything at all to do with the subject. I don't think anyone would dislike the furniture designs we are discussing BECAUSE they are American.

Originally Posted by silentC

The thing about generalisations is that people will always make them. Americans are loud, Aussies are lazy, Germans have no sense of humour, Chinese are wise and so on. Where do these ideas come from and why are they so common? There has to be something in it.

It would be very difficult to imagine anybody being able to shed themselves of ALL prejudices. I think it would be impossible to have an opinion about anything without a healthy set of preconceived ideas. Your beliefs are what define you.

Anyway, my point was that there are quite a few things about American society AS A WHOLE which I believe there are good reasons (as opposed to "no good reason") to dislike. In fact, I bet if you spoke to a lot of Americans, they would agree that the image their country has at the moment needs work.
That does not mean that I do not have the capacity to admire Americans that I have met or read about or seen on TV. I think I can hold these two seemingly opposing views with little or no conflict and without bias.

But my final point was that none of this has anything at all to do with the subject. I don't think anyone would dislike the furniture designs we are discussing BECAUSE they are American.

Well said. My first greenie to you....

Did anyone (apart from me) watch the show called "Storm" on SBS last night.

It was about the lack of a co-ordinated response to the big hurricane that hit New Orleans.

With the amount of buck passing, jobs for the boys, power base reshufling and general empire building, I am very glad that the Lions club runs the weekly chook raffle at the shopping centre I go to.

These feelings on americans crop up pretty regularly here, and i only took them personally the first time i saw them. Silent is correct that most stereotypes have basis. We (as americans) more and more are coming to realise that the only way to correct such a stereotype is individually. unfortuantely some vocal and visible individuals (G. Bush, and Sailing american as examples) typify the obtuse, asanine individual that embraces the idea that "we are the most powerfull in the world and everyone else should recognise this".

Most americans stereotype the french and think they are stuck up and snobish. but when I traveled there I found them to be wonderful kind people (and the women were stunningly beautiful ) with very few but vocal exceptions.

the thing about stereotypes is that they affect ALL the people encompased. no one denies that an unproportional percentage of muslims are terrorists. however does that mean that ALL muslims are terrorists? NO of course not, in fact the overwelming majority are not. but the stereotype persists because there are those who propegate it.

now here is my belief: ( and i hope i enjoy enough reputation here to say this as brutally as possible without a knee jerk reaction to the intentional lack of tact) If you hate americans (or any group), you need to grow up. anyone that dislikes someone before they know them is just as bad as the the stereotype the subject endures.

the truth is that I constatnly have to remind myself of this as well. when I pass a gangster/punk on the street I move my wife and child to the other side of me, and my mental guard comes up. but I always remind myself that we'd probably be good friends if the opportunity presented itself. they are most likely good individuals with a bad rep.

anyway, a truly long post for me to say one thing. Thanks to my good friend DPB for sticking up for me and having a great attitude.

(P.S. my spelling and gramar is as bad as Sailing American, but I never went to college )

Interesting thread.

When I first looked in the discussion was about design of furniture.

Look in to day and the thread has degenerated to a slanging match.

What happened.

Boredom?

Too much booze?

Auzzie stereo type? Vulgar, rude, p'pots.

Come on we all are woodies.
We should be able to set an example of decency to each other.

Originally Posted by ryanarcher

If you hate americans (or any group), you need to grow up. anyone that dislikes someone before they know them is just as bad as the the stereotype the subject endures.

So very true

Originally Posted by DavidG

Interesting thread.

Auzzie stereo type? Vulgar, rude, p'pots.

Come on we all are woodies.
We should be able to set an example of decency to each other.

Just to repeat David's words
Come on we all are woodies.
We should be able to set an example of decency to each other

Hi DavidG,
I agree, this discussion has degenerated, and prompted at least one other thread .
I have been trying to match the original observation about a certain style of furniture, and the impressions I get about the US in general. Can a simple thing like design (and styles or movements) be anyway related to a national psyche? Thats what interests me, and has prompted my posts on this thread.
Now I know there has been some quite valid points raised about over-generalizing, and assuming stereotypes, and I will admit I have not visited the US, but my overwhelming impression is one of self-satisfaction, excess in many things, especially consumption...including ornament/decoration. And also a pathological patriotism, harking back to some ordained birth as God's own nation. Most of us Aussies find this patriotism very hard to understand, even to bear...and maybe there is something in our rejection of such outward expession??
But back to furniture, I guess I look at the veneration and continuation of any older style as something like a reactionary view. As in "things were way better back then" and "they don't (or can't) make things like that anymore", and refuse to move on. Was the Federal style...or Chippendale, or whatever bandwagon one aspires to, the absolute pinnacle of furniture FULLSTOP? So much so that is becomes entrenched as the "house style"? I personally find that very limited in outlook and limiting in freedom of expression. Of course the opposite is also undesirable, the fickle changing of fashion and trend just for the sake of something new.
As a relatively new nation we probably haven't had time to distill a real homegrown style, but given our immigrant past, it will be a melange, a collage of existing styles. I have read that our culinary style is becoming distinctive, and that comes from mixing foods and methods from many sources, including Asian.
Here endeth the lesson

Originally Posted by echnidna

So very true



Just to repeat David's words
Come on we all are woodies.
We should be able to set an example of decency to each other

Wish I could withdraw this thread.... I'm going out to my Shed. Got some Huon Pine to transform into sawdust and something useful with what's leftover..later guys.
Cheers
ps. Don't let the mongrels get you down.

Well as the thread originator, you can delete it if you want.

The only thing that will stop you is if there is a time limit after which you won't be able to delete it.

I've deleted a thread before that I originated. Admitedly withingn 24 hours of starting it.

Perhaps an admin can enlighten us on the rules?

I can't see anything wrong with it myself....
It's a discussion.
It under General Woodwork.
It was called American woodworkers.

Did we go off topic?

The thing that sets this forum apart from some of the 'less interesting' ones is that we can have a good roudy discussion.

Everyone can have their say.
If you disagree, you can say so.

If it seems too serious, you can stick in a joke (& be called childish. )
If you don't like it, unsubscribe from the thread & stop reading but I would hope that you step up & state you case first.

Used to smash them with a golf club then found I was getting a sore elbow so now I just spray them with a 50/50 mix of detol/bleach works great -b@#@rds were everywhere last night. One got to my dog a while back and the vet got to my wallet $400 to get her better. Yanks!? No no no the toads

Cheers

PS On a positive note in this thread some people have posted some sensational sites to visit see example of inspiration work by others - great stuff