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9th May 2022, 10:48 PM #1Senior Member
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Best way to attach after market blade guard (so I don't cut myself again)
So this happened. And now I'm fixing the blade guard issue before I use it again.
Here's the situation.
My saw (Hafco ST-12D) comes with a stock blade guard, but it's not very good, and has no dust collection. After a lot of research, I bought a shark guard. It's fantastic, but my saw has a gooseneck style riving knife (attached to mounting blocks with the blade assembly), which makes it impractical to attach the guard directly to the riving knife. The good folks at shark guard recommended a ceiling mounted arm for the guard. I made one...
IMG_1057+Large.jpeg
It works, sort of. But it's in a fixed position with no side to side adjustment. In practice, this is no good for me, because my machine is rolled out every time I use it, and it's difficult to align it perfectly with the guard. It's too much hassle, which is why I haven't used it for a while.
I've got 3 ideas on how I can attach this guard in a better way, directly to the saw. Which option do you think will work best?
Option 1: Buy a spare insert and weld on a bracket to hold the guard. I think theres enough meat on the flat face in the second pic below to weld it on. Of course, the post would have to be ~2mm flatbar steel, and perfectly aligned with the blade. I only use full kerf blades, so it should work. I also like that this option means I can remove the guard (e.g. to cut grooves) by swapping the insert.
IMG_1053+Large.jpeg
IMG_1054+Large.jpeg
Option 2: Get an adjustable bracket fabricated, and attach it to the table extension bolts
In the photo below, you can faintly see the two M10 bolts that hold the fence rail to the table. I could use those to attach a horizontal bar with a sliding adjustment for a vertical post that goes over the table and holds the guard over the blade. This was actually my first idea, but I'm not convinced. It'll be finicky to remove it when required, and I'm also skeptical about flex and deflection. I think it would be a bit wibbly wobbly, and that would be no good.
IMG_1055+Large.jpeg
Option 3: Revisit the ceiling mount, but do it properly
As pictured above, my current solution is a bit of a hodge podge. I'd rather it be fixed directly to the ceiling, but the geometry doesn't really work. There needs to be enough rise/fall to get low down to the table, yet high enough to clear the roof of the car. Using telescoping SHS (as per current design) only works if it's on a swinging arm, because that allows more travel, but can also be swing out of the way when car needs to come in. The problem here is rigidity and adjustability. There too much play in the swing arm. Sometimes, the whole guard assembly moves a bit too much when pushing wood through it. It actually creates unsafe situations. And as stated earlier, it requires that the saw be in a millimetre perfect position. It turns out that isn't the ideal spot for the saw. Sure, I could move it... but I know there be some other reason in the future that the new spot is not right either. So, if I'm going to go with the ceiling mounted option, I've gotta solve 3 problems: rise/fall without being in the way of the car; rigidity; and adjustability. That won't be easy.
I like option 1 best, but tell me what I'm missing.
Thanks for helping keep me safe!
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9th May 2022 10:48 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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10th May 2022, 12:15 AM #2Senior Member
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I think the floating option is too good not to try and make work. My current saw came with one of these type arrangements and I've never operated it without the guard, my old saw with the riving knife attached one I usually left off as it was very clumsy.
There are various after-market versions of these, maybe you could use some for inspiration, sounds as though something connected to the saw itself is the go as you position the saw anywhere then.
Here's one from Ctec for ideas.
Carbatec Deluxe Suva Guard System | Carbatec
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10th May 2022, 01:15 AM #3GOLD MEMBER
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sell it all and buy a sawstop
i think barra might be on the money with trying to adapt something to the side of the saw. Could to also attach the arm to the roof via a lazy suzan on a track/guide which would allow it to rotate and articulate which might help line things up easier
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10th May 2022, 05:37 AM #4
If you decide to go ahead with a mounting system such as the Suva, consider what lengths you cross cut and if they are longer than the table is wide give careful consideration to the placement of the vertical support and guard hz arm design. No point designing another guard system that becomes a hassle to use or one that interferes with many of the operations you perform on your TS.
There is no one "perfect" design for a TS guard, so take a while to assess what cuts you make and what guard design "best" suits your preferences. I prefer the combined riving knife / blade guard support design and don't understand why TS manufacturers don't include or offer options for riving knife / blade guard supports to suit different saw blade kerf widths and for "dado style" rips or cross cuts with a single blade. We know why they don't - cost! Of course the options will also depend upon TS design and if the riving knife / blade guard support is fixed or rises and falls with the saw arbor.Mobyturns
In An Instant Your Life CanChange Forever
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10th May 2022, 08:10 AM #5Senior Member
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you make some great points. I have the same overall concerns with Suva style guards. There’s one that’s made for the saw, but it has a full 52 inches clearance in the RHS of blade. It’s just way too big and doesn’t suit how I use and store my saw. I already cut my rails back to 32 inches for the same reason. I don’t often cut pieces wider than that, but there are times that I remove the fence to accomodate a wide crosscut. This suggests to me that a boom arm for a Suva guard may be problematic.
unless… I have the bracket made So that the post detaches with a quick release knob. In that case, I could thumb screw the dust hose off, release the post, and take the guard assembly off the saw to do whatever I need to do. That might be the way to go for Suva style.
How about utilising the blade insert and welding a support bracket for a guard? Is that a dumb idea, or could it work?
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10th May 2022, 08:48 AM #6Senior Member
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Something like this might work for me.
image_109643.jpg
Attached to the back fence rail. It wouldn’t be quick release, but I think I can live with fixed crosscut capacity. It’s only panels that would test the limit, and I have a track saw that I should use for those situations anyway.
it shouldn’t be too difficult to design something like this and have it fabricated. I don’t think I need the fancy spring loaded and counter weighted contraption. The shark guard is designed to sit higher at the back with the front resting on the table. The curve at the front catches the piece going under it, and the guard pivots from the rear mount.
it would be a simple and neat solution, that won’t be cumbersome to store…
that’s looking like the strongest option now.
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10th May 2022, 09:07 AM #7
Making 150mm DC ports for workshop machines
post no.74
Our dedicated member John Samuel, created this.I would love to grow my own food, but I can not find bacon seeds
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10th May 2022, 09:28 AM #8.
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Given you move your saw I think your safest bet is to have the guard attached to the saw ie option 2.
However, even if the guard is going to be attached to the saw frame, there's nothing preventing you from attaching "extra" support from above. Because the X-Y position of the guard will be primarily determined by the saw frame support then the position of the OH support (Z) will not be as critical as it will provide vertical support even at an angle provided that angle is not too great.
"Extra" OH support could be via a wire and a couple of pulleys - One above the saw guard and one at the same height over next to a wall. Then run a thin flexible wire from the guard, up to the OH pulley - over to the pulley next to the wall and down the wall to a counter weight.
When you need to move the saw, unhook the OH support wire from the guard and the counterweight will lift the wire out of the way.
This is what I have used a couple of times. In my old shed I used a 2L cool drink bottle full of water as a counter weight. In my new shed I use lead weights. My TS is permanently located as its dust extraction is located under the floor. The guard is attached to a standard "dust picker' arm which is attached to the ceiling above the saw.
DustPickerx.jpg
The dust picker arm has been modified so that it can rotate the guard (left-right) out of the way (via 2 in the diagram) when I need to replace the blade which is quite often. The extra OH support, via a SS wire and pullets as per above, is used to adjusts the vertical position. To do this I loosen "1" so I can then move the guard vertically easily with one hand and the counter weight holds it in whatever position I move it to. for extra security I lock 1". "3" provides extra adjustment.
I realise you cant leave the guard and arm attached to the ceiling so for you the attachment mechanism has to be the saw frame but hopefully this may give you some ideas.
A few other pics
Celling attachment
The thick HDPE washed allows for a tight fit but doesnt prevent rotation of the whole arm
When I say the attaches to the ceiling it actually attaches too the red angle iron fram the holds a 1200 CFM ventilator which is attached to the celling.
Bracket2.jpg
If you look closely in the pic below, running thru the middle of the picture you can see the SS wire that provides the Vertical support.
ignore red narrow.
TSguard15.jpg
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10th May 2022, 11:49 AM #9Senior Member
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I like the concept Bob.
Am I being naive to think I won't need counter weighted adjustments?
I guess I can try without, and add it later.
The reason I think I won't need it is because the Shark Guard is not designed to hover. It's designed with the front resting on the table in front of the blade. So, the Z position can just be a knob that pinches the vertical post. Having a fixed position that is adjusted by a knob will get the job done. And when I don't want to use the guard, I can just push it up and cinch the knob, or take the whole thing off. I suppose it would be handy to be able to push it around and it keep it's place, but it doesn't seem essential to me.
Am I missing something?
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10th May 2022, 12:20 PM #10.
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Nope you’re not missing anything BUT once you try the no adjustment hover you’re unlikely to go back. Like you said try without and see how you go.
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10th May 2022, 04:50 PM #11Intermediate Member
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Mike Farrington made his own - albeit side mounted. Table Saw Overarm Dust Collection, Shop Built x 2 - YouTube
Regarding ceiling mounting, the first thing that comes to mind would be lying in a dentist's chair and the contraption they have for maneuvering their spot light into position. Maybe you could fashion something similar using RAM Mounts: RAM(R) Large Round Plate with Ball . Basically, friction ball joints which would give you the XYZ flexibility you require when the table saw isn't always in the exact same position when pulled out from the wall.
I've only had experience with the 1inch ram mounts which have great holding power, even when used on my kayakLast edited by Kickback; 10th May 2022 at 04:53 PM. Reason: missed word
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10th May 2022, 08:15 PM #12.
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I've made few of these mounts using a 1" ball bearing welded to steel rods.
This was one I incorporated into a chainsaw stand that holds the saw at almost any angle while it's being worked on.
IMG_8958.jpg
Close up of the ball joint.
The ball is held between two plates with semi cylindrical inserts and the plates are held together by 3 bolts - 2 fixed and one is adjustable.
An 1/8 of a turn of the adjustable bolt locks/unlocks it. Holding power is very impressive.
Balljoint.JPG
X-Y movement is not problems by getting a wide range of vertical movement is not quite as easy as it seems.
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11th May 2022, 07:20 AM #13GOLD MEMBER
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Option 2 is very similar to what the old man used in the table saws we used to produce for sale. The bracket was attached to the steel plate that the motors and shafts were mounted on and the whole assembly pivoted from the rear when the blade was raised or lowered. Then just had 2 bolts to slide the slotted knife into and tighten. Easy and quick to remove when necessary.
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11th May 2022, 12:31 PM #14GOLD MEMBER
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Make a magnetic mount with a switch in the mount for easy placement and release.
CHRIS
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12th May 2022, 03:28 PM #15Member
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I have been looking into an overhead mounting option - my current saw has no blade guard and no riving knife to attach to (planning to make throat plate splitters). it's a similar 12 inch design, MBS-300.
I was thinking overhead, so that it could be easily moved out of the way and doesn't take up valuable shed room beside the saw.
My current thinking: An articulating computer monitor arm mounted to the ceiling, a telescopic arm and then the blade guard attached to it. In theory this would allow full articulation and height raising lowering. But I have no doubt it's not as easy as it sounds in one sentence.
Did you get your telscoping SHS fabricated, or buy off the rack from someone? my Internet searches not been fruitful, I either get industrial suppliers or window cleaning poles...
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