Attaching D ring to MDF backing board for hanging art

[Bill49]

Hello

I'm going to hang artwork sandwiched between 3mm perspex and 4.75mm craftwood using swiss clips. My question is about securing the D rings to the back of the craftwood.

These are the D rings: http://deckthewalls.com.au/shop/4582...raming/7626374

The craftwood is 4.75mm thick and my thought was to use little wood screws for example these: http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/index...nufacturer_id=

I want to make sure the screw doesn't protrude right through the craftwood as it might then damage the art and perspex.

So I thought I'd use the 5mm length screws (possibly with a washer) but I'm just wondering whether this method of attachment will be strong enough to ensure the D rings don't pull off when the art is hanging on the wall.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Bill

[Handyjack]

Thank you for the reminder, I need to buy more D rings.

Can it be done - depends. What is the total hanging weight, and how far from the edge and how you are putting in your screws?
Pre drill your holes and do not over tighten.
As I am not doing the work and have not seen it I do not want to comment further. If you can post some images and a possible weight we may be able to give more guidance.

[Bill49]

Thanks for the reply Handyjack. Here is a diagram of the proposed attachment points for each orientation. Roughly one third down from the top and say 10 cm in from the sides.
Mounting points.jpg
The total weight is approximately 2kg. I was surprised you said pre drill the holes as I naively thought not pre drilling would result in a tighter grip! The only alternative I've considered is bifurcated rivets but then there is the issue of the rivet protruding on the artwork side and I want the perspex sheet to lie completely flat against the craftwood backing board.

Actually I just found a pdf about craftwood which recommends the use of parallel threaded screws and the drilling of a pilot hole 80% of the diameter of the screw core diameter.

[Handyjack]

Your positioning is ok.

I believe that the weight should not be a problem if the screws are correctly inserted.

4.75mm craftwood is an odd thickness, but it is better than 3mm. Craftwood or MDF is not a real timber but a manufactured board of compressed wood fibers. If you do not pre drill the hole there is a good chance that the screw will pull out. If you over tighten (easy to do with thin boards) you can strip the thread in the timber allowing for a loose screw.

Best wishes for your project and please report back.

[NCArcher]

Glue a couple of block or a strip of more substantial timber or MDF (6mm maybe) to the back and fix the D rings through both the block and the back

[China]

Another way to do it is to use small brass countersunk bolts from the inside and cover the inside countersunk bolt heads with inert tape

[Chesand]

Glue a couple of block or a strip of more substantial timber or MDF (6mm maybe) to the back and fix the D rings through both the block and the back

I agree

[Bill49]

Another way to do it is to use small brass countersunk bolts from the inside and cover the inside countersunk bolt heads with inert tape

Are you thinking of something like this?

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgu...FYyqvAodKIQAlg

If so do you know where you can buy them in Australia online?

[Bill49]

Glue a couple of block or a strip of more substantial timber or MDF (6mm maybe) to the back and fix the D rings through both the block and the back

I'm guessing this gives more strength due to the surface area of the block being glued and allowing use of a thicker diameter screw with the greater thickness of material?

[Evanism]

I'm guessing this gives more strength due to the surface area of the block being glued and allowing use of a thicker diameter screw with the greater thickness of material?

Yes. NCArcher and Chesand are right. The glued backing block will give you much more support for the screw.

4mm mdf doesn't offer much meat for the screw. One slight overturn and you strip the tread and destroy the ability to hold.... And mdf is pretty crap at holding any screw at the best of times

By glueing even a thin strip of pine (say 4mm, or thinner) gives you heaps of extra material to go into, plus there will be zero risk of punching through.

Even the small strip of pine glued to mdf will offer more holding power than required to hold a few kg, even with a small screw.

Do pre drill though, it does hold a lot better.

[China]

I meant something like this with a nut,
https://www.blackwoods.com.au/search...4867?c=Product

[Robson Valley]

Are you convinced that you need to use MDF in the first place? Most of it is assembled with resin/formaldehyde adhesives.
The formaldehyde is in excess so the MDF continues to out-gas for quite some time. I wouldn't want you to hang any of my art,
be it an analog decor photograph or a painting (acrylics/watercolors) against MDF. Floated against archival press-boards, yes.

[Bill49]

Are you convinced that you need to use MDF in the first place? Most of it is assembled with resin/formaldehyde adhesives.
The formaldehyde is in excess so the MDF continues to out-gas for quite some time. I wouldn't want you to hang any of my art,
be it an analog decor photograph or a painting (acrylics/watercolors) against MDF. Floated against archival press-boards, yes.

I'm not convinced! I've come across plenty of references on the net to the issue of the MDF potentially damaging the artwork. The only mitigation I've come up with is to get my prints done on 285gsm PVC film. I'm hoping that the out-gas won't affect the PVC but that's only a hope.

I'm trying to strike a balance between unit price, ease of assembly and obtaining a minimalist/modern look that I think will complement my style of art (original is poster paint but I plan to sell computer "enhanced" versions where the brush work/paper texture is replaced by "bucket fill tool application of colour"):

Charcott.jpg

The other issue is that the swiss clips only handle up to 8-9 mm thickness comfortably and I'm not keen to have to cut rebates into the board to accommodate a thicker sandwich of perspex and board.

Assuming the use of 3mm perspex and the sandwich style of mounting what method would you suggest re 1. backing board, 2. method of holding everything together and 3. attaching the D rings? Do you hang your own art and if so what method do you use out of interest?

[JPA]

Why don't you just screw the D rings into the frame rather than the backing board?

Also, I think you'll need bigger clips. Let's say 5mm for the backing + 1mm for artwork + 2mm perspex = 8mm. But you may only find thicker perspex. I don't think you've taken matting board into account either - you can't have the artwork touching the glass or you can get some moisture problems. That will be another 1-1.5mm.

When I want to stinge out on frames I use:
- Some cheap Meranti for the frame
- Coreflute backing
- Glass instead of perspex (it's cheaper whenever I get it)

The rest is hard to do cheaply. Matting board is always expensive, but try at the discount art stores (eg. riot) instead of framing shops, though they'll only have black or white. Hardware like D-rings, brass wire, hold downs are annoying to buy for single projects, but there's no way around that.

[Bill49]

Why don't you just screw the D rings into the frame rather than the backing board?

Also, I think you'll need bigger clips. Let's say 5mm for the backing + 1mm for artwork + 2mm perspex = 8mm. But you may only find thicker perspex. I don't think you've taken matting board into account either - you can't have the artwork touching the glass or you can get some moisture problems. That will be another 1-1.5mm.

When I want to stinge out on frames I use:
- Some cheap Meranti for the frame
- Coreflute backing
- Glass instead of perspex (it's cheaper whenever I get it)

The rest is hard to do cheaply. Matting board is always expensive, but try at the discount art stores (eg. riot) instead of framing shops, though they'll only have black or white. Hardware like D-rings, brass wire, hold downs are annoying to buy for single projects, but there's no way around that.

I'm basically doing my own version of this:

https://www.frameshop.com.au/?file=Perspex_Clip_Frame

so there's no frame to screw the D rings into unfortunately. The swiss clips will handle 9mm so 4.75 backing board + artwork plus 3mm perspex should be just okay for thickness. But I wasn't planning to use matting board. I hadn't thought of moisture forming between the art and perspex though. Given I hope to use PVC prints it wouldn't damage the print but it could look unsightly. Have you had experience of moisture forming - under what circumstances? Yes the fixings are expensive! I paid about $100 delivered for 100 swiss clips so that's $4 there I have to pass on to the customer. At this point I'm looking at about $52 in costs for a mounted A2 print then I have to add say 30% selling commission before I tack on something for me Maybe I'm about to be tapped on the shoulder and reminded this is a wood working forum - not an art forum!