Thread: Aussie Iron Bark Kicking my A$$ Help Appreciated

Hi P. Have you tried using a much smaller router bit?

Welcome to the forum Peter.

(I have been well and truly humbled by this wood)

I wish you good luck.

So you have about 45 well seasoned hardwood sleepers in total to do. I think you may need to find some equipment which is a bit more heavy duty (ie much bigger).

But if you are a glutton for punishment (been there myself) you could try slowing the router speed to allow the 2" surfacing bit to do its thing. Scorching of the workpiece and skipping over the surface rather than cutting are a good indicator that the surfacing bit is running too fast. If your router isn't variable speed a smaller diameter bit is needed as Mountain Ash has stated above.

That still leaves you with the problem of the thicknesser to dress the opposite face. At between 5 to 10 passes through per set of blades before resharpening (or replacement - am I right in thinking the Makita blades are not really designed to be resharpened) it will be time consuming as well as expensive.

Perhaps it may be a better option to outsource the dressing of the timber. However that in itself may be difficult as many commercial workshops won't touch reclaimed or recycled timber due to foreign bodies like nails, stones, dirt etc that bugger their expensive blades. One solution is to find a hobbyist in your area with the right equipment who will dress it with your help for a cashie donation plus resharpening and/or replacement of any damaged blades.

I'm not meaning to 'rain on your parade' but I know I would find it more enjoyable to fabricate the benchtops starting with freshly dressed sleepers rather than spending days or weeks struggling to dress the timber.

Just my 2c worth. Hope this helps.

Regards
Twosheds

Originally Posted by twosheds

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Perhaps it may be a better option to outsource the dressing of the timber. However that in itself may be difficult as many commercial workshops won't touch reclaimed or recycled timber due to foreign bodies like nails, stones, dirt etc that bugger their expensive blades. One solution is to find a hobbyist in your area with the right equipment who will dress it with your help for a cashie donation plus resharpening and/or replacement of any damaged blades.
...
Twosheds

Thanks for the advice guys, I admit I had the router going at full chat as I had assumed faster was better! I will slow it down and see if it gets me anywhere first and then look to outsource the dressing of the wood if that doesn't work.

The wood itself should be free of foreign bodies because the place I bought it from takes a sleeper (about 200mm thick) and slices it in thirds depending on specification and I believe they xray it and take out any foreign bodies as part of that process.

For others reference, I made a jig to sharpen the Makita planner blades with a whetstone, which works okay, but am finding the hardness of this wood is creating little nicks in the blades that cant be sharpened out because the blades are very small to start with (they are more like a razor bade and not like a traditional planner blade).

Can anyone recommend any shops/enthusiasts in the Brisbane region (pref northside) that I could get in touch with?

Cheers

Peter

I've surfaced some timber as hard as ironbark with a router sled but gave up using 2" bit and ended up using a 38 mm bit.

It 25% narrower but that means you can run the router and move the bit faster so you end up close to the same speed as the 50mm bit. It's much easier on the router being able to run it at higher speed.

However, this is not going to solve the sheer amount of wood you need to remove which sounds like its best done with a decent thicknesser.

Peter

Ironbark is a hard taskmaster at the best of times, but old railway sleepers are the worst scenario I can imagine. The problem is that over many years the sleepers have weathered and filled with debris including small stones and metal filings from the rails as well as dirt: All of these are incredibly abrassive and are the reason your planer blades ar damaging. Your task is huge. I am on record somewhere on these Forums as saying that after disasterous episodes cutting sleepers with a chain saw I refuse to cut them anymore.

I think that even with the recommendations made by Mountain Ash and BobL it will continue to be an exasperating struggle particularly because of the quantity involved. My suggestion would be to cut off the weathered surfaces so that you are into clean wood. The original sleeper was 8" x 5". I would look at cutting off at least 1/2" all round. You can do this with a hand held circular saw going from both sides for the edges. Then cut the wide side in half and repeat for the other edges. You may not end up with quite 4" square, but not too far off. Then follow the routing advice that others have given.

Any router bit over, say, 1" diameter needs to be slowed down. It is the tip speed of the bit that is important. What HP is your DeWalt? A quick look at DeWalt indicates currently their largest machine is 1100W.You would need the largest router available to drive a 50mm bit into Ironbark (think twice the power at >2200W). I would also keep touching up the bit with a hand held diamond hone. It would dull quickly, but at least a bit like that is one of the easier to sharpen. If your router runs at 24,000rpm, I would try a 25mm bit at 20,000rpm. A 50mm bit should be dropped down to about 10,000rpm. These figures are not precise but are a starting point.

Instead of buying another bit you could also consider overlapping the cut until the machine is cutting comfortably.

Regards
Paul

Edit: I have just re-read your first post and see that the size you have quoted is not a railway sleeper. Railway sleepers were 8' long by 8" x 5" so I am not now sure what you really have. You may have to view my comments in your context.

You’re using toy tools to do that sort of work. Outsource it.

Hi guys,

Thanks very much for the responses and valuable info.

I had another crack tonight to see if I could put some of your advice into action. I deffinately had some improvements but agree my 'toys' are just not up to it.

Some photos attached for reference.

image8.jpgimage2.jpgimage0.jpg

I am worried that if I outsource this, I will get the wood dressed to the right size but it will cup / bow in the glue up as any moisture is released from the fresh cut wood.

I would prefer to invest in the right gear if I can reasonably afford it. So I am thinking a 38mm router bit (or smaller) and a proper thicnesser planner.

Can anyone recommend the type of planner thicknesser I should be looking for? I am guessing old and large.

I can already see my wifes eyes rolling...

Cheers Peter

Ironbark is hard enough as it is, it gets even harder as it ages.

Because it's so hard, you need to take a decent depth of cut to make sure that the blades are actually cutting and not just riding over the surface and scraping (which will make them dull even faster); the problem with a deeper cut is that you need (significantly) more power than you have available. You can try a smaller router bit, but I'd seriously be looking around for local cabinet/joinery shops that could dress it for you

You say the 2" bit is skipping over the surface and creating a dome. Could it be that because you have used the bit at the higher RPM you have already dulled the cutting tips and therefore it won't cut easily anymore.
Here are some clips from an article in the Wood magazine that might help with speeds.

Router bit speed_1.JPG Router bit speed_2.JPG

A thicknesser will give you a smooth surface but it will follow the line of the timber which may be bowed, warped or out of wind. If you can find someone local with a Lucasmill with a planer attachment you will be able to clean them up in no time and make them flat.

Originally Posted by Petoriss

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image2.jpg ...

Peter, could you post some photos showing how you operate the sled. I presume the router slides along the bottom of those rails, not sure how the ends of the rails are supported, how they slide and how they are stabilised. {Reason I ask is to look at your technique.]

... I am worried that if I outsource this, I will get the wood dressed to the right size but it will cup / bow in the glue up as any moisture is released from the fresh cut wood. ...

If wood is going to move, then it will do so irrespective of whether you or a joinery does the dressing. Very few commercial joineries will allow salvaged timber on their machines; this may be a problem, but potentially the best solution.


I use a lot of salvaged timber, and know first hand how hard it is on machinery. Besides nails and bolts (magnetic), I have found many embedded nasties including rocks and gravel, shells, concrete, and dirt & sand.

My technique is:

• Belt sand all surfaces with 40 or 60 grit belt sander until clean wood is reached,
• chisel/prise out all visible nasties until sure nothing remains,
• Joint and thickness with sacrificial blades,
• Change blades and smooth surfaces.

Using two sets of blades really removes a lot of head aches. The sacrificial blades find nasties regularly, even though I am convinced that I have removed them all!


PS: Now you know why iron bark got its name!

i have zero expertise so listen to others before me, but i wonder if you'd have more luck if you treated this a bit like a metal rather than a timber

i see (on youtube) metal machinists using a tool called a "face mill" in their milling machine for this sort of operation in metal. face mills look vaguely similar to surfacing bits -- to my eye the difference is they cut with points rather than flats. i wonder if a face mill can generally be mounted in a router, or if there is a face mill or adapter specifically for this use, or perhaps a surfacing bit that uses pointed cutters rather than flat blades?

for dealing with especially hard metals, i see metal machinists switch to abrasives rather than cutters... and that's consistent with GraemeCook's suggestion to get into it with a coarse grit on a belt sander first

A surfacing bit is a face mill for wood. The good ones have the tips on a slight angle so they cut with the leading corner and not the flat on the bottom