Thread: Breadboard Ends

Originally Posted by Baz

OK you learned furniture makers, I am thinking of making a phone table with the top having breadboard ends. What is the normal method of attaching the ends, I have done a bit of a google and the way I see it is that it is a bit like a mortise and tenon joint, is that correct?
TIA
Barry

Individual mortice and tennons are ok, but one long "tennon" on the table and matching groove on the end is the way to go.

Just remember the most important issue. Movement.

Divide the width into 3 and screw and glue the middle third, and the outer two thirds just screw with an elongated holes, every 70 - 80mm`s will do underneath the end. That will allow the top to contract and expand happily ever after

Hi Baz,

M/T joint is a good way to go - just need to be a bit careful on different timbers having different expansion/contraction rates with temperature/humidty, so try and stay with timber with similar rates.

The more learned ones on here can no doubt advise on compatible types.

Cheers!

if you want to do individual ones, the outer mortices must be wider both side of the tennons.

Done this 4 weeks ago. its one long one. glued in the middle and elongated screws on the out side 2 thirds

Thanks guys, the piccy shows all Lignum. Is it possible for the breadboard not to have the mortise all the way through so that you don't see the joint as in the piccy?
Cheers
Barry

Originally Posted by Baz

Thanks guys, the piccy shows all Lignum. Is it possible for the breadboard not to have the mortise all the way through so that you don't see the joint as in the piccy?
Cheers
Barry

Yes stop it 20 or 30mm in. Lots of people like it exposed. Its nice to see and feel the top moving.... Mother Nature at work But dont forget to leave room inside for the timber to move.

Originally Posted by Lignum

if you want to do individual ones, the outer mortices must be wider both side of the tennons.

Done this 4 weeks ago. its one long one. glued in the middle and elongated screws on the out side 2 thirds

Hi Lignum!

That's interesting - you didn't use a stopped M/T, but rather let the joint show. Hmmm, If I was doing that, I'd use a sliding D/T instead because it looks nicer. Generally, though, I prefer a stopped joint. Like to hear your views!

Cheers!

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

Hi Lignum!

That's interesting - you didn't use a stopped M/T, but rather let the joint show. Hmmm, If I was doing that, I'd use a sliding D/T instead because it looks nicer. Generally, though, I prefer a stopped joint. Like to hear your views!

Cheers!

I like it to go through as i like the look and the feel, and i find when making for others after seeing it so do they. With the dovetails some :eek: years back i tryed the dovetail and it stuck half way:eek: . i glue only in the middle because the timber has to move at the outer edges. So i havnt bothered again. Maybe its time to try again. What are they like when you do them?

Originally Posted by Lignum

I like it to go through as i like the look and the feel, and i find when making for others after seeing it so do they. With the dovetails some :eek: years back i tryed the dovetail and it stuck half way:eek: . i glue only in the middle because the timber has to move at the outer edges. So i havnt bothered again. Maybe its time to try again. What are they like when you do them?

With a hard wood (eg Blackwood, Red Gum, Jarrah, etc), and hand cutting the tail and (generally) routing the channel, they are fine.

I'm making some cabinetry at the moment that makes use of this (not breadboards, but rather heavy duty shelving to take some hi-fi and a very heavy TV - >50Kg so the shelf will have fore - aft M/T jointed under braces), and find this technique much better than a dado type M/T, especially if I use a very slight angular cut so that the shelf will only go in so far - I can then mark and trim to this and, whilst being removeable, will only (hopefully!) slide back in to the prescribed mark. As well, I just happen to like the look better: if it's a side or occasional table, I can live with visible joinery, but for a more formal table, would prefer invisible joints.

I did use the WoodRat for this type of thing before I sold it, now use a combination of router and darkside - although I'm (still ) waiting on a Steve Knight dovetail plane to help with this sort of joint. While I'm in a minor rant mode, I still haven't received my Shepherd infill Spiers #7 smoother kit either

Cheers!

Baz

I've made or repaired several tabletops with breadboard edges. I've done like lignum said: Tongue and groove joint (like his photo), glue the middle 3d of the tongue, and used dowels from the bottom with elongated holes through the tongue. If you don't like the tongue to show, do a stop cut just before the end of the table.

I usually use a router to cut the slot and the ts to make the tongue.

Good Luck

Paul

Wot the others have said.
I prefer sliding dovetails because they're self-fixing, but of course the joinery has to show. That's ok with me, particularly on a 'contemporary' piece, and it impresses people who don't know how easy it is to do. I'm not so wedded to hand tools that I have to cut every type of joint by hand, and do them with a router. The simple jig required to cut the tails takes about 5 minutes to make.

Breadboard ends go well on a limited range of things, IMO, so I make them very rarely. However, sliding dovetails are a very useful joinery technique for a whole range of items from traditional to modern. They're quick (once you finish the laborious mark-out process!) strong, neat, and can be made to show or kept hidden, in carcases.

Cheers,

In lignum's fine table I saw that the mortice was in the end with (of course) the tennon on the table top.
Now for some reason I always pictured this sort of arrangement the other way round. That is, the mortice in the tabletop.

Is there a reason for one way or the other or is it just a matter of individual choice. :confused:

Originally Posted by Auld Bassoon

With a hard wood (eg Blackwood, Red Gum, Jarrah, etc), and hand cutting the tail and (generally) routing the channel, they are fine.

I'm making some cabinetry at the moment that makes use of this (not breadboards, but rather heavy duty shelving to take some hi-fi and a very heavy TV - >50Kg so the shelf will have fore - aft M/T jointed under braces), and find this technique much better than a dado type M/T, especially if I use a very slight angular cut so that the shelf will only go in so far - I can then mark and trim to this and, whilst being removeable, will only (hopefully!) slide back in to the prescribed mark. As well, I just happen to like the look better: if it's a side or occasional table, I can live with visible joinery, but for a more formal table, would prefer invisible joints.

I did use the WoodRat for this type of thing before I sold it, now use a combination of router and darkside - although I'm (still ) waiting on a Steve Knight dovetail plane to help with this sort of joint. While I'm in a minor rant mode, I still haven't received my Shepherd infill Spiers #7 smoother kit either

Cheers!

G'day AB
Why did you sell the Woodrat :confused:..I've been looking at maybe getting one tho I already have the Gifkins jig (Deluxe version) , a fixed as well as a hand held router.
Cheers
Mike
ps..finger REALLY painful:eek:...more drugs NOW doctor!! er sorry...raving...

I guess its the type of timber being used, but I made a coffee table about 4 yrs ago out of red cedar, with fully glued and dowelled breadboard ends. Finish is oil and wax. The top is bark-to-bark flitch, and held to the frame with metal table clips in a routed groove, so there is room for movement there, but despite being in a room copping northern sun, with no airconditioning and the table often used to park backsides, I have yet to see any movement, crack or any fault:confused: . I'm not saying that the general warnings regarding breadboard ends and movement are unwarranted, simply that I haven't had it happen...in this instance.

Cheers,

OK got all of that, thanks. Next Q. So allowing for movement do you glue and biscuit joint the main boards or are they floating?
TIA
Barry