Thread: Bridle Joints

Ben

I follow two rules when I cut with Japanese saws:

1. Establish a horizantal cut, establish a vertical cut, then use both as a fence for the other. I think you know what I mean.

2. Let the saw do the work. Do not try and force the cut. Do not try and push to cut. Do not pull hard to cut - just take it easy and let the blade do the work.

I might add that these saws are best at cutting from low rather than the height of a Western workbench. The Japanese woodworker typically clamps the wood with his body - a foot on a woodblock. So the saw is intended to be used with arms outstretched. So look at your stance when cutting. I had the same trouble in the beginning.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks for your advice guys, I appreciate it.
Derek I'll take a good hard look at my stance, and I'm sure with a bit more practice, I'll have those saws working for me.

Silent C, the floor looks OK, maby it's got to do with the curve of the earth down here in Melbourne, I'll try facing 'up hill'


Ben

Hi there,

I'm a cabinetmaker by trade. I called Derek over a year ago when a corner chisel needed resharpening to help him out (so now you know who it is, Derek.)

To cut with any saw, you need 5 things in a plane (flat surface in space, not Stanley).

1) The tip of the saw;
2) The handle of the saw;
3) Your elbow;
4) Your shoulder;
5) Your eye.

To get these in a line, you will have to stand askew to the job.

a good link is here on how to use a saw properly.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/wvt044.asp

Now, to cut a bridle joint.

first, cut from one side down the line (leaving half the line behind ideally) to the diagonally opposite corner.

secondly, turn the workpiece 180 degrees in the vice and repeat

finally, cut down through the little triangle that's left to the line.

Some say that the best way to cut a bridle is to drill out the bottom of the socket first - I cut it out with a chisel but.

A few links on how to cut tenons (similar technique for bridle joints - I'll let you cut & paste them into the browser address bar):

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/howto/jo...tise/index.php
http://www.gre.ac.uk/~eduweb/showcas...s/mortice&.htm

Hope this helps and cheers,

eddie

Forgot to mention that one advantage of the jap saw, as well as a disadvantage, is that once you start cutting with it, it cuts in a straight line alot better than a traditional saw.

a big advantage if you start out straight.

eddie

I use a micro-adjustable table-saw tenoning jig to cut bridle joints. If you want the plans and description of the jig, e-mail me at [email protected] .

Derek

In your last two post you omitted very important information!

I don't know you as a person that slips up, so just to remind you:"Keep the tools sharp"
Have a good weekend
Cya
Joe

I have a good quality Dozuki and Ryoba and both saws will cut where i point them, its just that I don't always point them straight!! Just remeber that Japanese craftsmen spend many years in apprentiships, training their body and mind to be able to cut joints right off the saw. So don't get too hard on yourself if your very first trial is a little off.

I agree with Derek on the whole height issue though. Pull saws defintiely work better when the work is held low.

Leaving a sawing tolerance can lead to a lot of pick and poke so keep it very small and make sure your marking out is very good and you don't obliterate your marks. Using a very sharp chisel that settles into a knifed or guaged mark for a final cut will produce very accurate results if the final cut is very small.

The other thing is bridle joints and cutting tenon cheeks involves ripping this means the teeth should ideally be shaped for this purpose. Cutting the shoulders of a tenon is of course crosscutting necessitating the need for another saw. Good quality Ryoba have nice fine teeth for doing both but I've found cross cutting with a Ryoba to be a little harder than with a stiff backed Dozuki

Cutting joints by hand can be immensely rewarding but just remeber that someone once said that it takes more than a songbook and an instrument to make music.

Tim

p.s. Craig, Good God man! - you don't have to wait to retire to develop these skills. I'm only 53 (but look like an Adonis of 23 years ... yeah!) and very much a part-timer in woodwork. I'm afraid retirement is many, many years off for me.

Derek,

I didn't mean to infer that you were retired and therefore able to spend the time hone your hand skills.

I only meant that in my case, I have a lot of other stuff that I have to do and when I'm able to devote some time to woodworking, I tend to go for a solutuion that will give me good results reasonably quickly.

I realise that when you are acomplished with your hand tools that it's possible to cut a joint by hand faster than it is to set up a machine to achieve the same thing, but as I said, these skills take time to develop and for me it's just a matter of priorities.

Cheers
Craig

At the risk of belabouring the points made earlier.

It won't matter what nationality the saw is - if it ain't sharp and/or set properly it will wander.

If you practice enough you will find that you can control that wander with patience and sharp!!

If you revert to the power tools it's a case of - "Don't use it - you lose it!"

IMHO

Mind you if I was doing more than 1 of the aforementioned joints I'd have setup the table saw and had it done accurately by now.

Jamie