Thread: New Brisbane Furniture Making Startup - machinery, advice, interest, questions

Your post reminds me of old Max Jensen...

jensenjarrah.com - jensenjarrah Resources and Information. This website is for sale!

Old Max had a old small run down mill in the southwest oz town where I lived, and despite only being a stones throw from the then big Bunnings mill which operated 24 hours a day back then, the local council wanted to get Max to move his operation out of the middle of town (coz the area they wanted to rezone to residential for houses etc).

One of Max's boys took it over and looked at the local light industrial area - as a potential move location but at the time the mains water didn't reach that far and they wanted $20K to extend it...

So he went afield to Busselton Shire, where they were keen to attract new business to their new light industrial area and they offered him a peppercorn lease on land etc as an "incentive".

So our shire council effectively drove a family and business OUT of town while a more progressive Council nearby backed a bloke who set up a huge furniture manufacturing enterprise - employing more than 100, I believe at one point! (our towns population was only 1200 - and 100 jobs is MORE than the now large EX Bunnings (read Gunns) timber mill employs!

The whole basis of his business plan then, was to use the short pieces of Jarrah - that the industry sent to waste...

It was set up to dry and finger joint all these "shorts" into useable lengths for outdoor furniture - so he had his own kilns drying setup and manufacturing facility with 4 siders - and docking machines etc with electric eye to cut out faults...and all the shorts went into finger jointed longer boards of small dimensions.

The feature was design that would be assemble it yourself flat pack type design for outdoor tables chairs and BBQ trolleys etc. They sold thru the Bunning's hardware chain at one point, it was (still is) a real success story.... Have to take my hat off to Max's lad for what he has done with the business.

Rule 1... stay away from anything that's dependent on anything to do with our own Aussie State or Fed Govts - they change their minds like my missus changes her undies - you just can't trust them in business - they will make bloody minded decisions that will bankrupt your business, at the slightest provocation, from any minority land rights for gay whales tree hugger group.

Find a market niche not being serviced at present.

Find innovative technology that gives you an economic edge in manufacturing.

Good design... is crucial - its the key to the IKEA phenomenon... flat pack assemble it yourself is today's success model (for freight and labor reasons).

You could do OK - who knows!

From what I remember, Max's lad is a very decent sort, why not make the effort to go speak with him, and see what advice he would give you - he's successfully walked this rice paper trail, despite our governments best efforts to put him out of business many times, over continuity of supply with local timber issues etc.

Couldn't hurt to ask him... could it?

Cam,
Before you go much further, may I suggest sitting down and doing the sums. IMHO $20k is going to fall well short of the mark.
Your set up costs and overheads are going to eat a giant hole in your budget. Machinery costs alone would run to twenty grand.
I just did a quick list of machinery essentials and came up with a figure of $19200!

This sounds contrary to all the hype about business (and possibility a bucket of cold water,but that is not my intention).
From personal experience and observations of bitter experiences had by others.

My personal advice:

Start Small
Stay Small

If demand for your products grow to the point you need to expand, 2 ways to go;

Expand, BUT only to the point where increase in revenue can service increase in debt.

Or, (and this is my personal favorite

Increase your pricing, (you loose some customers sure) the increase in income coupled with the drop in production demands= Increase in income without increase in debt.

Be-wary of long leases on commercial/Industrial properties, just in case you have to Upside or Downsize in a hurry.

Someone once told me 'when dreaming of having your own business, it's all well and good to focus on the positives but you also have to have a bit of a dream about the removal truck emptying your house and the bailiffs walking in.'

I've seen both, but only experienced one of them, that I put down to thinking big and staying small.

All the best with your endeavors

Oh... and stick to retail, stay away from wholesale.

Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by rustynail

Cam,
Before you go much further, may I suggest sitting down and doing the sums. IMHO $20k is going to fall well short of the mark.
Your set up costs and overheads are going to eat a giant hole in your budget. Machinery costs alone would run to twenty grand.
I just did a quick list of machinery essentials and came up with a figure of $19200!

Thanks for your help! Yep, 20k is just for machinery. The facility is free for 12 months (just electricity). I have separate budgets for material, marketing, insurance etc......

It is still quite a tight figure, but I have to start somewhere.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by fineboxes

This sounds contrary to all the hype about business (and possibility a bucket of cold water,but that is not my intention).
From personal experience and observations of bitter experiences had by others.

My personal advice:

Start Small
Stay Small

If demand for your products grow to the point you need to expand, 2 ways to go;

Expand, BUT only to the point where increase in revenue can service increase in debt.

Or, (and this is my personal favorite

Increase your pricing, (you loose some customers sure) the increase in income coupled with the drop in production demands= Increase in income without increase in debt.

Be-wary of long leases on commercial/Industrial properties, just in case you have to Upside or Downsize in a hurry.

Someone once told me 'when dreaming of having your own business, it's all well and good to focus on the positives but you also have to have a bit of a dream about the removal truck emptying your house and the bailiffs walking in.'

I've seen both, but only experienced one of them, that I put down to thinking big and staying small.

All the best with your endeavors

Oh... and stick to retail, stay away from wholesale.

Cheers

Steve

Brilliant, thanks Steve. good advice!

Originally Posted by Timless Timber

Your post reminds me of old Max Jensen...

jensenjarrah.com - jensenjarrah Resources and Information. This website is for sale!

Old Max had a old small run down mill in the southwest oz town where I lived, and despite only being a stones throw from the then big Bunnings mill which operated 24 hours a day back then, the local council wanted to get Max to move his operation out of the middle of town (coz the area they wanted to rezone to residential for houses etc).

One of Max's boys took it over and looked at the local light industrial area - as a potential move location but at the time the mains water didn't reach that far and they wanted $20K to extend it...

So he went afield to Busselton Shire, where they were keen to attract new business to their new light industrial area and they offered him a peppercorn lease on land etc as an "incentive".

So our shire council effectively drove a family and business OUT of town while a more progressive Council nearby backed a bloke who set up a huge furniture manufacturing enterprise - employing more than 100, I believe at one point! (our towns population was only 1200 - and 100 jobs is MORE than the now large EX Bunnings (read Gunns) timber mill employs!

The whole basis of his business plan then, was to use the short pieces of Jarrah - that the industry sent to waste...

It was set up to dry and finger joint all these "shorts" into useable lengths for outdoor furniture - so he had his own kilns drying setup and manufacturing facility with 4 siders - and docking machines etc with electric eye to cut out faults...and all the shorts went into finger jointed longer boards of small dimensions.

The feature was design that would be assemble it yourself flat pack type design for outdoor tables chairs and BBQ trolleys etc. They sold thru the Bunning's hardware chain at one point, it was (still is) a real success story.... Have to take my hat off to Max's lad for what he has done with the business.

Rule 1... stay away from anything that's dependent on anything to do with our own Aussie State or Fed Govts - they change their minds like my missus changes her undies - you just can't trust them in business - they will make bloody minded decisions that will bankrupt your business, at the slightest provocation, from any minority land rights for gay whales tree hugger group.

Find a market niche not being serviced at present.

Find innovative technology that gives you an economic edge in manufacturing.

Good design... is crucial - its the key to the IKEA phenomenon... flat pack assemble it yourself is today's success model (for freight and labor reasons).

You could do OK - who knows!

From what I remember, Max's lad is a very decent sort, why not make the effort to go speak with him, and see what advice he would give you - he's successfully walked this rice paper trail, despite our governments best efforts to put him out of business many times, over continuity of supply with local timber issues etc.

Couldn't hurt to ask him... could it?

Ahh, inspirational story indeed! You're right, I could definitely give him a ring. I'm doing my best to introduce myself to a few people that I admire the work of around town.
Such an encouraging and supportive community - particularly coming from adland...

Thanks again for the advice!

Cam,
Since you have 3 phase, I would go for second hand 3ph. It can always be sold without much depreciation. I have a 400mm 3ph over/under with a slot mortiser. I paid $2500 18 years ago, I could sell it for that today and it's not a toy. A 3ph Waldown drill press... $100, accurate and built like a tank. Many times some tooling will be included with a spindle. A slot mortiser is more useful than a hollow chisel....segmented circles,ovals, curved chair legs etc.
As for employees...to start I would look for an older joiner/ wood machinist, part time, to learn safety and all the setups.

Originally Posted by Ball Peen

Cam,
Since you have 3 phase, I would go for second hand 3ph. It can always be sold without much depreciation. I have a 400mm 3ph over/under with a slot mortiser. I paid $2500 18 years ago, I could sell it for that today and it's not a toy. A 3ph Waldown drill press... $100, accurate and built like a tank. Many times some tooling will be included with a spindle. A slot mortiser is more useful than a hollow chisel....segmented circles,ovals, curved chair legs etc.
As for employees...to start I would look for an older joiner/ wood machinist, part time, to learn safety and all the setups.

Excellent. Thank you for your help. The older gear definitely stands the test of time, I look into it.
There's a few places closing down that would probably be the go.

Cam

Originally Posted by Cam.H

I've recently made a switch from advertising - I'm now pursuing a career in furniture making, yep!


Up until now it's been a hobby, but have decided to take it on full time. I am doing some training etc, but also making as I go.


I'm passionate, keen, confident and about to set up shop.


I've done all the business planning/ financial side of things and am now about to begin.


I will predominately be making outdoor furniture with a strong focus on using timber.
I will however incorporate concrete, steel, leather, bronze, resin etc. into my designs too.
The furniture will be distinctive, stylish, of high quality and practical.




I have a few questions, some of which I know the answer to but am looking for experienced opinions/suggestions:


Budget: $20,000 max (excluding stock/materials).


I have a workshop at Chandler I'll be setting up in. It has 3 phase (an ex cabinet makers shop).


1. What machinery/gear would you say is essential to begin?


Thicknesser/ planner
Disc Sander
Spindle Moulder
Sliding compound mitre
Band saw
Table Saw
Drill press
Extraction
Hand tools (too many to list)
Bench, tables, racks, storage


Let me know of any specifics with this list, type, model, do's/dont's, essential addons etc.


2. I am leasing the gear so will get it new and from the same place for ease and the banks comfort.
I was thinking Carbatec, any other suggestions?


3. Workshop layout/configuration suggestions?


4. Would you say I needed specific Installation of any gear?


If anyone has any experience/ advice/ opinions on starting up a shop from scratch please let me know.


If you have any gear that you're selling that might be of interest, again please let me know.


And, if anyone is interested in the possibility of helping/ collaborating/ teaching/ making etc please get in touch.


Thanks VERY MUCH for your help!


Cam.

Hello Cam,
I've bought some high quality Garden furniture from a local company "Australian Garden Furniture' at Bilsen Rd, Geebung. This is well designed and well made furniture with mortise and tennon construction, some joints were even pegged. While chatting with the owner he indicated that his family had grown and left home and that he may, in the not too distant future, be thinking about retirering to follow other interests.
This is a going concern with all the 3 Phase equipment required in place and running. Like I said why reinvent the wheel.

Hi,
I set up a cabinet making shop from scratch having been a hobby maker, then part time maker, before finally taking the plunge and going full time.

Three phase cast iron is essential, especially if you are busy, set, forget and abuse becomes the order of the day and you'll always break something just when you're near a deadline. Diy stuff always breaks.

Pick machines carefully for what you are going to do. I was focused on the table saw and bought an altendorf and had it customised to make staircase strings. But never really thought in detail about the planer/thicknesser, just bought a good old heavy one. Problem was I needed repeatable accuracy for making windows and should have spent more on an electronic one.

Don't forget tooling, I spent 15k (euros) on second hand machines and probably a further 8k on tooling. You need at least three sets of everything, one cutting, one in sharpening and one for when you break the first one. Good tooling = accuracy = happy clients.

Think carefully about finishing. Saws and spindle molders are exciting, but reality is the sanding takes forever and skimp on this and the clients will be straight back.

Finally, remember to focus on quality and take the time to get it right, work out the routines, sequences and workflows to make things repetitive and less prone to failure. Consider outsourcing time consuming stuff such as planing. And...big and....Don't skimp on wood, trying to plane 25mm out of 28mm well lead to disaster (I speak from experience....) Buy 38-40 and plane it right first time.

I lasted 6 years before I threw in the towel, and probably wasted the first two years and heaps of cash. I made money in years 3-5, and in year 6 realised I could make more working at McDonald's.

Happy to help if I can, feel free to contact me.

Cheers

Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Tapatalk

G'day mate,

Congratulations on ditching the day job!

I'm in the process of setting up a workshop and hoping to achieve unemployment at the end of the year as well.

$20k is going to be tight. For 20k I've managed to get a table saw/spindle moulder, thicknesser/planer, bandsaw and dust extraction aaaaaand that's about it.

Admittedly I'm not on a super tight budget (all of the gear is going to do a major renovation on a house before it's used for the business) and I've bought high end gear (felder/hammer) but you'll blow through $20k very quickly.

IMHO if you want to be efficient with your time, you need good gear. You need the accuracy, repeatability and the power otherwise you wind up chasing errors with every new cut.

Spindle moulder tooling is expensive. Think $300 - $1000 per cutter.

I've spent another 15k on a couple of spindle moulder cutters, sanders, router table jigs, domino, clamps etc. I had a fair bit of gear already as well.

I'd definitely be looking at some second hand gear if 20k is all you've got.

Good luck!