Thread: Wanted - someone to build us a vanity unit

do you know what sort of timber it is?
Astrid

i think the reason why you get all the blank stares from the cabinermakers is because why do you want to use timer (on the inside espically) in a wet area. You have to waterproof the timber by spraying with a two-pack clear and that will cost alot, espically spraying the inside. It's time consuming and most cabinetmakers wouldn't be bothered to use up all the time for just a one-off unit - and if they do it, they'll charge an arm and a leg because of the labour cost

None have expressed any surprise about the timber - you can get timber vanity units new all over the place - it's the idea of reusing materials they're blank about. Comments include "what, do you want to save trees?" (very sarcastically) and "I've never thought about that before, and I'd rather use new materials".

The top is pine, I have no idea what the doors are made of, and the reason why we don't want to use particle board is because it's toxic - it offgases formaldehyde -
http://www.informinc.org/fact_P3pressedwood.php - and even the less toxic newer sorts still offgas, with not particularly healthy consequences.

I understand the need for waterproofing in a wet area, and we're prepared to pay for it - we did get one quote but the guy then disappeared off the face of the earth and we haven't been able to get him to come back.

cheers

Pine, the table top is, and I'm not sure about the doors, may be pine too.

I understand the need for waterproofing, and we're happy to pay for it, we just can't get anyone to do it!

The blank looks have been more about the idea of reuse of materials than about it being wood - you can get wood vanity units new all over the place - people don't understand it.

We don't wish to use particleboard - it offgases formaldehyde, which is highly toxic even in small amounts, and even the newer forms of particleboard (which don't offgas formaldehyde) still offgas, and it's still not healthy. We're trying not to use any at all, especially in the bathroom where the warm/damp make it offgas worse than in the rest of the house.

can i ask a question do you know ANY ONE that has been sick from so called offgas?
i dont doubt it is real but how many people ??
any one on here know of anyone ?

I do actually. But this person (actually the child of a former colleague) has serious allergies. A special house was built. The house is positively pressurised and there are airlock entrances. No man made boards or chemical paints were used in the house.

I haven't been to the house. I've only seen photos as the house is in Melbourne somewhere.

I've often wondered since how the bathroom was done as that would be really hard to get right by modern standards without modern sealants. I imagine it would be possible but getting it certified would be interesting with the closed minds of most building inspectors.

Well, let's see. Formaldehyde - which is what is offgases by many particleboards - has definitely been implemented in cancer - know anyone who's had cancer??

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

"Of major concern are: outdoor air pollution by carbon particles associated with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons; indoor air pollution by environmental tobacco smoke, formaldehyde and volatile organic compounds such as benzene and 1,3 butadiene, which may particularly affect children and food contamination by food additives and by carcinogenic contaminants such as nitrates, pesticides, dioxins and other organochlorines."

And this study ranks pollutants according to risk and exposure,

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

"With OEHHA's unit risks, the highest ranking compounds based on the population median are 1,3-butadiene, formaldehyde, benzene, and dioxin, with risks on the order of 10(-4)-10(-5). The highest risk compounds with the U.S. EPA unit risks were dioxin, benzene, formaldehyde, and chloroform, with risks on a similar order of magnitude. Although indoor exposures are responsible for nearly 70% of risk using OEHHA's unit risks"

With formaldehyde rated second worst, and indoor air exposure accounting for 70% of our exposure to organic hazardous air pollutants, it's obviously quite a significant risk, whether or not you've heard of anyone getting sick from it.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that we wish our indoor air quality to be as good as possible, and are looking for someone to help us with a vanity unit, not to argue with people who unaware of the risks of indoor air pollution.

cheers

use plywood for carcase, differnt type of glue.

i herd that the plastic in cars "off gases" at 2000 times more than section of 100x100mm particle board.

most particle board in aust is rated as low, beware of imports from china where regulaions are not as high.

Becks,
looking at the empathy of your replies, I understand your problem.
You have to understand that it will probably cost a bit more and Im not sure pine is the best timber for a bathroom unless its kauri.
Email me and I can give the details of somone who is pretty sympathetic.
He rebuilt my deck using the old timber.
And guys remember that the customer is always right.(Even when their not)
about 50% of my clients are women who are sick and tired of tradies who wont listen or patronise them.
so change attitude or lose jobs

Astrid

If you were in Hobart I'd build it for you. With the rider...Caveat Emptor. We don't think we're all experts here but the responses you have been getting are generally based on experience. In my experience, pine - unless its Huon or King Billy - is totally useless in a bathroom unless it (the bathroom) is one of those contemporary designs which sit in natural surroundings and allow moisture and humidity to disperse easily. AS for "offgassing", the grime which builds up on the inside of your car windows is...formaldehyde. A major constituent of automobile plastics. Unless you live in a bubble, everyday life exposes us all to such compounds. I guess they call it progress. Anyway back to your recycled vanity. Do you know what species of pine the top and doors are. That'd be the starting point. If its one of the maritime exotics then 2 pack wouldn't be necessary. There a number of non-toxic natural based oils available which would be suitable as a finish. The downside is that you would have to rejuvenate the finish every six months or so depending on the humidity of the bathroom. As for the carcase why not shop around for some acid etched toughened 6mm glass for the main carcass. That would look uber cool and be a real talking point. Assuming that dollars are no object. Its a project I'd have a go at and would probably charge around $2500 with your basins and tapware supplied which is about a $1000 more than you'd pay for one of those ugly MDF things at Plumbing shops which are basically stapled together.

Good luck with it. Outside the square's my suggestion.
Cheers
Mike

"AS for "offgassing", the grime which builds up on the inside of your car windows is...formaldehyde. A major constituent of automobile plastics. Unless you live in a bubble, everyday life exposes us all to such compounds. I guess they call it progress."

Yes, well since we don't have a car and very rarely travel by car, I guess I'm not exposing myself to that either. So "your car" may be exposing you to formaldehyde, but mine isn't, as I don't have one.

Of course I don't and wouldn't want to live in a bubble, but since 70% of exposure to dangerous pollutants is from indoors air, it makes sense to me to minimise it as far as possible. I'd rather be breathing clean air, and I'm frankly surprised at the amount of sarcasm and patronising comments - as if I don't know that automobile plastics offgas too! - I've got when I came here looking for help with a vanity unit, not comments about why my lifestyle choices are silly.

Now, I don't know what the doors are made of, but since they've been on the current vanity evidently for some years, without being water damaged, I'd guess they'd be fine for the new vanity. The top of the table is clearly pine, but I'm not a wood expert, and I don't know what sort of pine. With proper waterproofing, I would think it would be okay.

I don't want to build the carcass of the cupboard from glass - I don't think it would go with the rest of our bathroom design (and money is definitely an object - we're not made of the stuff), ply is an option but we were really wanting (as I originally said) to use recycled materials and I don't love our chances of getting undamaged ply second-hand.

So, if you can help, or offer helpful suggestions, please let me know. If you just want to heap scorn on me for trying to avoid formaldehyde, I'd really rather you didn't.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Beks

Yes, well since we don't have a car and very rarely travel by car, I guess I'm not exposing myself to that either. So "your car" may be exposing you to formaldehyde, but mine isn't, as I don't have one.

No disrespect intended here but if you travel at all in an enclosed vehicle (read as, train tram or bus) you are being exposed to the same materials that are in cars.

I respect your opinion and as I said I know that there are some people for whom there is a real issue with modern materials. However, the vast majority of us are fortunate to not be that sensitive which naturally makes a lot of people skeptical because it isn't happening to them. So I think you should read the comments here in that context.

Originally Posted by Beks

Now, I don't know what the doors are made of, but since they've been on the current vanity evidently for some years, without being water damaged, I'd guess they'd be fine for the new vanity. The top of the table is clearly pine, but I'm not a wood expert, and I don't know what sort of pine. With proper waterproofing, I would think it would be okay.

Unfortunately all waterproof finishes will have used a solvent of some kind or, in the case of two pack finishes, a chemical catalyst. Even oil finishes use chemical driers of some kind to make the oil polymerize. Even so called "boiled" linseed oil. There are water based lacquers but I know nothing about them or even where to find them here in Australia.

As for the pine species, a photograph would be of some (though not infallible) assistance.

Originally Posted by Beks

I don't want to build the carcass of the cupboard from glass - I don't think it would go with the rest of our bathroom design (and money is definitely an object - we're not made of the stuff), ply is an option but we were really wanting (as I originally said) to use recycled materials and I don't love our chances of getting undamaged ply second-hand.

Most plywood (as far as I know) is made using Urea Formaldehyde glues to bond the plies. How much off gasses I couldn't say. I imagine the most danger is in cutting the stuff.

Plywood is generally made from plantation grown trees. If you are concerned with ecologically sustainability then this is about as good as it gets.

Using recycled materials can be rewarding as sometimes the materials are better than new material. What I have found here in Brisbane is that purchasing recycled materials from the dealers is significantly more expensive than new materials or about the same. Based on my experience, if you are trying to save money, this is not how to do it. You may have other reasons that override that cost consideration.

Originally Posted by astrid

And guys remember that the customer is always right.(Even when their not)

Speaking as someone that regularly had to deal with know-it-all customers (computer support) I respectfully disagree. In the end you are not helping the customer by just going along with whatever the customer says. That means you may have to educate the customer. However, some customers are not worth the trouble and different people have different levels of tolerance.

I don't think this is the case here with Beks.

Beks has fears regarding the off gassing of certain modern materials. She has obviously done her own research. I know this phenomenon does exist though it rarely affects most people significantly, at least in the short term.

I'm not personally worried about it as I reckon I'm more likely to die from mesothelioma (spelling?) from exposure to asbestos courtesy of the Royal Australian Navy and the old ships I served on.

Originally Posted by astrid

about 50% of my clients are women who are sick and tired of tradies who wont listen or patronise them.

In broad statistical terms, 50% of your customers are likely to be women. So are you saying that all of your female customers are fed up with tradesmen?

I know that I do get fed up with some of the so-called tradesmen that I have dealt with but that is not to say that I am fed up with all tradesmen. And yes, I have seen the way some tradesmen talk to women.

Originally Posted by astrid

so change attitude or lose jobs

I think that's good advice for anyone, regardless of gender. Ever seen the way women in kitchen goods stores or departments talk to men?

I have been on the receiving end from some real gorgons and I bet I can out-cook most if not all of them. I'm certainly a better cook than most (but definitely not all) of the women I know.

Look I think Beks has a valid arguement and has chosen to tey to limit toxin in her life! GOOD FOR HER! But if the rest of us want to be lazy about it that is fine also. The EMF radiation levels in most kitchens are also quite harmful. This is the world we live in, and cancer is prevelant.

I was thinking that maybe marine ply would be a good option for the carcass and that you mayfind other suggestions in the boat building forum.

Where are you located by the way?