Thread: Bullnose vs Shoulder Plane

Slavo

A bullnose plane is not the best of choices when cleaning up shoulders of tenons. Without a nose it is rather tippy. This is where the shoulder plane scores since it has a nose to register and guide the cut. A bullnose plane is best used when planing as far up to the end of a dado (e.g. as in stopped dado) as you can.

Look up the Stanley family of planes: #90 (bullnose), #92 and #93 (shoulder). http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan11.htm

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

. . .far up to the end of a dado . . .
Derek

Good moaning!

I am tompted to moke a vilgur remook but I wall restroon mysulf!

Captoon Crabtroo

Thanks Derek,
I like the idea of removing the toe of the bullnose plane to convert them into a chisel plane. But then if I think of the number of stopped dados that I would use (none that I can think of) I'ld be better off getting the shoulder plane and leaving the bullnose for another day.

Slavo,

It seems to me that a chisel is a perfectly adequate tool to clean up the end of a stopped dado, and, if need be, to fine-tune a tenon. If you have a table-saw, and you build a tenoning jig, you should be able to cut tenons sufficiently accurately that they need little or no fine-tuning anyway. So my contention is that a shoulder plane is redundant. It will look nice in your tool cabinet, but it won't really earn its keep.

Alright, I admit it; I was on the verge of buying one last week. But logic got the better of me, and I spent the money on some Hirsch chisels and Henry Taylor gouges instead.

Rocker

Rocker

That logic's a bugger! Once it gets the better of you it's quite capable of stopping you from having fun acquiring things you don't really need!

Col

Originally Posted by Driver

Rocker

That logic's a bugger! Once it gets the better of you it's quite capable of stopping you from having fun acquiring things you don't really need!

Col

It's not logic, it's the bank manager that stops you from having fun acquiring things you don't really need

my contention is that a shoulder plane is redundant. It will look nice in your tool cabinet, but it won't really earn its keep.

Actually Rocker I use my shoulder planes all the time. They have a variety of uses.

My current project is a chest of drawers for my son. This requires a number of dados (e.g. for the partitions) and a shoulder plane is a great tool to tune the dado bottoms. I have also used a Stanley #79 (side rabbet plane) to trim the walls of the dados, and a Router #71 to make sure the dado depth is exactly even. This is all done after using a power router to run the dado in the first place. I have a 18mm straight bit and 20mm thick boards. I could adjust the straight edge for an extra 2mm but the boards are hand planed and I'd rather make the adjustment by hand so the fit is exact and not an approximation. The only type of chisel that you could use for dado bottoms is a cranked chisel.

I also use shoulder planes on end grain. They make very useful low angle block planes. In many ways they are much more manageable than a dedicated block plane on narrow sections.

Shoulder planes are extremely useful for trimming and/or smoothing across the grain, such as with raised panels. Try doing that with a chisel

But most of all shoulder planes are much more accurate than any chisel at their given task, that is, to trim or straighten tenons and tenon shoulders. Yes you can use a chisel. But why would you if you had a better tool that would do a better job?

The chest of drawers uses mortice and tenon joints on all the partions, a total of 22 in all. This time around I chose to make the mortices with my router (most of them with the $39 GMC in the router table - it is working well! ), then cut the tenons on the tablesaw. I use my own jig for this. It is not as accurate as yours (I do think yours is great) but it is very satisfactory for my needs. I get within a hair of tight, then swipe the tenon with a shoulder plane. Very satisfying to do this (I'm sure that you get the same feeling from a perfect fit on your jig). Frankly, I don't think that I would build much if I had to get it perfect each time. I don't have that type of personality. I would get too anxious. So I have become very good at repairing my mistakes. And that is partly what I get so much pleasure from - fitting joints together by hand. Sometimes painstakingly (and even then .. ). You get your jollies in a different way. That's cool

Anyway, it's great that we can provoke responses from each other. Makes for new learning. I have no doubt that you'll respond. Look forward to it.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I think we had a discussion on this topic a few months ago, and, failed to convince each other to change our opinions That is fine. I think you use shoulder planes primarily because you get satisfaction from the operation of a well-tuned plane, which is performing its task well; whereas I am happy enough to cheat by using a machine to compensate for my lack of skill with hand-tools.

I just find I can do all the tasks that a shoulder-plane is designed to perform just as well in other ways. I smooth the end-grain on raised panels with a block plane. I cut tenon shoulders on the table saw, and never need to tidy them up, except when cutting the shoulders for the angled twisted tenons on the back end of the side rails of my rockers. With them, because the tenon is twisted, i.e. not parallel to the faces of the rail, the shoulders can only be cut to a shallow depth on the table-saw. But I find a chisel to be the most accurate way of tidying the shoulders up. I use the chisel with its back flat on the part of the shoulder already cut by the table-saw to clean up the rest of the shoulder.

I cut tenons these days on my tenoning jig, using the outer two blades of a dado set, separated by a spacer. The jig simply serves to get the tenon centred. The tenon's thickness is determined by the spacer. Once the spacer is tuned with shims, I can reliably cut tenons within 0.05 mm of the desired thickness; if I do need to pare a sliver off the cheek of a tenon, I can do it very accurately with a wide chisel with its back flat on the tenon cheek.

Similarly, I do not need to clean up dadoes. I can cut them with my dado set to whatever width is required. Stopped dadoes are routed, and a chisel is used to square up the ends. In this case I would adjust the thickness of the frame that is to be housed in the dado to the dado's width rather than vice versa.

That said, I might get a Veritas shoulder plane one day, but it will be a luxury rather than a necessity.

Rocker

Originally Posted by Rocker

That said, I might get a Veritas shoulder plane one day, but it will be a luxury rather than a necessity.

Rocker

Just make sure you don't let that bloody logic sneak in there!

For a completely different viewpoint.
i went down the same road, that is, shoulderplanes, bullnose planes a little while ago. I like the versatility of the Stanley #92 #93 etc, being able to convert from shoulder to bullnose seemed pretty tricky.

After a few questions, some research and some more time in the playpen, actually making stuff. The end decision I mad ewas to opt for a HNT Gordon shoulder plane.

As already stated a really sharp chisel does all that a bullnose plane can do.

I can use the HNT for tenon shoulders, tidying dados (I have no dado blade so I gotta use a router, and sometimes they need help) also for getting into lil nooks and crannys where only a lil plane can fit.

I can see Rockers point of view, an accurate jig used on an accurate table is gonna give accurate results. I ain't got any of that.

I also agree with Rocker maybe a shoulder plane isn't essential, but on the other hand when the only tool you own is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.