Thread: Burn Baby Burn - protecting the shed

Originally Posted by Evanism

Been here a while and watch most of the forums, but I haven't seen anything from anyone talking about fire.

Maybe not recently, but if you do a search for fire you will see it has come up many times in the past.

Does anyone here do anything beyond maybe 2 smoke detectors, a big red fire extinguisher and garden hose?

I have one smoke detector, a fire blanket, and two fire extinguishers (one near each door).
I do a lot of metal grinding, welding and I also have a small gas powered forge at that end of the shed which puts out a lot of heat so this is why I built my metal work end of my shed entirely out of non-flammables.

Anyone actually HAD a fire due to woodworking?
(I've made a bit of smoke on the table saw and the fortners when they are going blunt.... but nothing more)

I have had a small fire caused by a combination of sawdust, ants and a wet GPO.
I have set my shirt on fire with an angle grinder several times (now use a leather apron)
Heat treating steel. welding, grinding or using the forge sets the smoke detector of so I take it down when I or they would set of the fire alarm.
Recently I installed a large capacity ventilation fan which copes with all of the above except the forge, so I have to take the smoke detector down when I use the forge.

I've had a rag from Danish Oil start to smoke. After that, all rags are left outside the shed. I have two fire extinguishers in the shed. Because the shed is separate from the house and a moderate distance from the house, I reckon I wouldn't hear a smoke detector.

To me, if you store everything adequately, get rid of the sawdust from the floor and make sure the shed is uncluttered then you should be safe. I store my flammables in an old steel locker, clean up the shed after every session and make sure that machinery that causes sparks (grinder etc) is kept well from combustibles. My dedicated oil rags are, much to the wife's disgust, hung up on the washing line. Once they're past it, they're discarded in a sealed plastic bag.

I had smoke coming out of the belt sander one time when I ground metal on it. Sparks set off the wood dust inside the guard. Quickly pulled the plug and luged it outside in case it set the shed alight. I have been a bit more fire aware since then. In fact I should have known better in the first place as a trained firefighter. Now all oiley rags get hung outside to dry off before going in the bin. Everything is unpluged before locking up and any metal grinding is done outside. I think we are all a bit more lax with safety in our own sheds than say at work. There are many things in a woodwork shed that will burn so fire is another factor to consider when you plan any job.
Regards
John

Yes, there have been a few shed fires reported on the Forum, and the mere thought is enough to make any grown man weep!

I observe the same rules of cleanliness as Scott (well, once or twice a year I may leave some shavings on the floor overnight) and certainly keep any sparks or naked flames well away from combustibles. I used to keep all my finishing liquids such as oils, turps, metho etc., in the garden shed where the mower lives (I would be secretly delighted if the b*st*d went up in flames), but I have let some of it sneak back into the work shed, lately.

I think this thread is a timely reminder for me to get them out, & go & get that extinguisher I've been meaning to get for some time. I have two hoses within 5 metres of the shed (& we have very high water pressure at our place!), but it would be a smart move to have an electrically safe extinguisher in a metal shed, in case I can't get to the main switch in time.....

Cheers,

When I was working (kitchen cupboard manufacturer) the boss got a bee in his bonnet and got a Fire Safety bloke come and make recommendations. We had 2 panelsaws doing the cutting so there was some build up of saw dust that was as fine as talcum powder lingering in corners that were hard to reach. every day we would sweep up the whole workshop. This bloke made the recommendation to fit 2 water extinguishers. I reckoned that if a fire was to start it would come from an electrical fault at one of the saws and there for need a CO2 extinguisher. But what would I know.

Just slightly off topic what insurance policies do others have to cover our sheds? I know its a grey area and that household policies would carry a basic cover. Years ago I approached NRMA Insurance but it was just too hard for the girl at the counter to give a clear direction. If its a business different story. As far as they are concerned only a token amount would be covered for "Hobbyists"

Originally Posted by chambezio

Just slightly off topic what insurance policies do others have to cover our sheds? I know its a grey area and that household policies would carry a basic cover. Years ago I approached NRMA Insurance but it was just too hard for the girl at the counter to give a clear direction. If its a business different story. As far as they are concerned only a token amount would be covered for "Hobbyists"

I think it's quite pertinent to the topic, actually, Chambo. When the subject of sheds & tools was raised with our insurer (RACQ) there was a bit of feet-shuffling, but they agreed to cover me if I provided a list of tools in advance that could be verified. Nobody ever came to check my list, and it's now severely out of date, so that's another heads-up for me to do something about it. I started out some time ago, to make a photographic record & put down a current $ value for each tool, but didn't finish it properly. It's an easy enough thing to do, & provided I keep some safe copies & update them every couple of years, I may be able to claim a fraction of the value of my tools in the event of the unspeakable happening. So many are irreplaceable, though, & no amount of money could restore my tool kit, so I remain careful, & vigilant, & fervently hoping that nothing disastrous ever happens......

Cheers,

This was part of my thinking.

As I've accumulated quite a bit of stuff, having it knocked off or burnt would be terrible.

I was on the blower with GIO about my contents level and I asked the question. She went to find out, and yes it needs to be documented, as it's "unusual".

Just like a nominated piece of art or a unique piece of furniture. They have no means of knowing the value of that slab of Zebrano or Full line of Incra gear stuffing the shed

So yes, in their case, lists of EVERYTHING and photos kept separately.

There was no extra cost, just the need to be thorough.

As a side, I saw insurance carrier in the back of an Aussie wood mag that offers public liability and tools away from home insurance.... Might check them out.

Back when I had the timber business for 20 years, it was almost impossible to get fire insurance because the building was timber frame - and the insurance cost was thus cost prohibitive.

In the end we installed a special sub meter for all electrical connections (single and 3 phase) within the workshop.

The golden rule was turn off the sub mains before going home. This isolated all those machinery switches that get fine dust in behind them and with a little air moisture over night - can track electricity between the terminals thru the carbon in the saw dust and eventually start a fire.

We had the isolation sub mains switch because we had a timber seasoning kiln in a separate building that had to run 24/7 for 3 months at a time when seasoning timber so turning the power off at the mains for the whole property wasn't an option.

We never had any fires in the 20 years we operated that way!.

It worked for us - can't say it would work for others.

We had the usual CO2 dry powder extinguishers hung near all the doors.

Cheers

Fire is always a risk & from obscure items like steelwool. Any one use OOOO steelwool with oils?

With insurance you need to ask for "extension cover" to cover your workshop and hobby tools. Remember they are not tools of trade so be carefull as insurers will attempt to cop out on the "tools of trade" definition if or when you make a claim.

The Victorian Woodworkers Assoc. also have a good scheeme for members who want public & product liability insurance and I believe they still offer a "Home & Workshop" policy cover through their brokers. Public and Product Liability Insurance

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

Fire is always a risk & from obscure items like steelwool. Any one use OOOO steelwool with oils?

Steel wool is a dangerous one , I have seen it catch fire [ the finer grades ] through a spark from an angle grinder or the battery terminals from a cordless drill , and the charger unit for such battery's.
I have a melted Makita charger somewhere, from such a mishap.

I have used 0000 steel wool with a linseed oil and turps mix thousands of times but have not seen or heard of the oil igniting the wool like it does with rags,
I think [ and hope] it drains well and breathes well enough not to self combust.

I nearly had the workshop burn from linseed oil and rags once. they were left in a pile clumped together on a table out back on a Thursday afternoon one Easter break. The sun was also on them each day and they ignited on the Sunday, luckily the neighbors were having a beer that afternoon and smelt the smoke ,they jumped the fence and put it out.

Any oily rags are now left spread out to dry not left scrunched up , it was recomended to me to have a bin with an air tight lid to keep them in , I didn't like the idea though.

Rob

This thread caused me to re-visit my list of what's down-in-de-shed. The last list I compiled was more than 10 years ago, and as I discovered, an update was well & truly overdue!

I decided to do it proper-like, and took careful photographs of all the main tools, partly to prove they are (or were!) there, & partly because many are unique in one or more ways & could easily be identified from my pics if some nasty blighter should ever make off with them. So there may be better ways, but here's what I did:

So a couple of weeks ago, I took pics of everything with an individual value of more than $20 ('market' price - more about that shortly), plus pics of tool cabinets, benches, & machines in-situ. I spent a good bit of yesterday & most of today putting it all together. First, I cropped & shrank the pics (about a billion of them!), and put them neatly into a Word document with a short note beside each, as to what it is (just the bare details), and my estimate of the market value, i.e. what I reckon it would fetch if I were to put it up to a reasonably knowledgeable audience like the 'Market Place'. I then tried to figure out what the replacement value would be (if it can be replaced), & that's what took far longer than I expected. My tools range from much older than I am, to a couple that were brand new a month or so ago. I had to look at a few places to get a sense of what to expect, which is confusing, given the range of prices that the same item fetches in the different markets.

I thought the power tools would be easier, but several of both the hand & stationary power tools I own have been superseded by newer models, or are no longer made, and it's difficult to figure out what an exact equivalent would be. For example, I have an old Woodfast lathe, circa 1980, and it looks like I would have to pay at least $3,000 (plus a heap more for accessories) to get something similar today. That's to be expected, but when you compare the 'market value' of my old lathe with 'replacement cost' , the gap is even more discouraging!

So I guess I will now be even more careful & more vigilant in caring for & looking after what I have!

Cheers,

I had a colleague a few jobs ago that was into woodworking big time and he had a fire that started from a battery charger plug pack for his cordless drill. He saw the fire take hold from his kitchen window and managed to get his car out with some paint damage, but lost the rest, timber, tools and the shed completely gone. He luckily did have good insurance and had been thorough in cataloging his gear so got it all replaced new and put some extra coin in himself and built a bigger shed.

I don't know about everyone else but I have a lot of things on chargers, 3 battery drills, paslode, ryobi 1, AA charger etc etc. They are all plugged into a powerboard and this plugs into a power point next to the light switch over my bench, so I never leave my chargers powered up when I'm not in there. I'm considering an overall "kill" switch to drop the power off to the whole shed with 1 switch or maybe be a button near the door which powers a contactor that in turn feeds the switchboard. (I'm a sparky by trade)

But anyway, my reason for all this waffle....turn off your chargers !!

Cheers
Redgy

Good point, Redgy. I try to remember not to leave chargers, glue-pots, or anything else running overnight, but am guilty of forgetting, occasionally. I do have a sub-panel, with a master switch, so I kill everything if I'm going to be away from the shed for a few days, but because it kills the outside sensor light, I don't switch off when leaving the shed each evening, in case I need to go back there in the dark. I should have asked to have the outside light on a different circuit, in retrospect ....

Cheers,

Just finished doing up the list in excel.

I am shocked. It is shameful how much has been spent over the last two years on woodworking gear.

It's made it even the more important to ensure its covered properly. Restarting at the price on the bottom of the sheet? I doubt I'd do it the same way! (so much stuff I don't use!)