Thread: Buying Dimensioned/Dressed vs Buying Machinery

IMHO the biggest problem with buying dressed timber (apart from the cost) is the edges are very rarely at 90 degrees and the corners are usually knocked off in transport. If you're planning on edge jointing to make table tops there's really only one solution for you. That's the machinery.

I used a router to mill the edges of stock back to 90 degrees for ages but now I've got decent machinery I'm way more inclined to make stuff. It's so much easier.

I agree with the big B offering in terms of timber...especially for hardwood which is what you will want when building quality furniture. Not sure about Brisbane but the range here is woeful and limited to Tassie Oak. I buy my timber from a recycled timber yard, they have a little more variety but still not anything huge, mostly the timbers used in past buildings or piers. The issue I find is that usually the timber is not square and the sizes they list are only a rough guide. Often when wood has been sitting for a while it is also a little warped or twisted in one or two directions too so that doesn't help either, although that can be avoided with careful sorting and a good eye at the yard.

I'm really in the same dilemma as you, i've tried your "option 1" and have now determined that I need "option 2" if I have any hope of reaching the levels of quality I'm after. It's very frustrating spending days trying to flatten and square timber with hand planes, especially if you then make a mistake later down the line. If I was you I would go for the machinery option if you can afford it. Just start with decent quality stuff, if you get the cheapies you will only regret it later and upgrade anyway. I've done that a couple of times now. Not anymore though, i'm picking up my first decent bandsaw from Carbatec today. Hopefully I can get my hands on dad's combination jointer/thicknesser too. What i'd really like is a good table saw though, but i don't have the room for it.....oh well have to wait til I move house.

Good luck on your journey, from one "weekend warrior" to another.

Its not about the economics its about the pleasure. It also allows you to buy rough sawn timber at a cheaper price.

Agree with dalejw.

There are other issues. As you develop your skills you will want to make prettier and more complex pieces. Being able to dress your own timber is a big advantage.

Some of the prettiest timbers come from small scale blokes who mill logs/stumps. Picking up some red cedar and NG rosewood from such a bloke in a week or so. Getting some burl and some 300 X 150 mm flitches of blood red rosewood. Because I can cut boards and veneers using a bandsaw and a combo jointer/thicknesser, this beautiful timber is available to me. If I was buying timber ready dressed, I could not use it.

Quite often you will want a specific sized piece of timber. Being able to dress it to the size you want is a big advantage.

If you are as keen as you sound, you will need the machinery to give you flexibility. I recently started veneering with 3 mm shop sawn/planed veneers (finished at 2 mm) and love the result. You can't do this without a bandsaw and a jointer/thicknesser.

We are all different, and make different things in our shops. Figure out what you really want to do, and the decision will likely be easy.

Have fun!

John

Originally Posted by John Samuel

Quite often you will want a specific sized piece of timber. Being able to dress it to the size you want is a big advantage.

Exactly what I was going to say!

If you have the machines you are not tied in to stock standard bunnings sizes. You can use DAR timber as well as rough-sawn and depending on what machines you have you may be able to take on small logs that may come your way.

It gives you options! I hate restrictions.

Anyone who has ever looked at a log in the firewood pile and seen something better than firewood in the particular log, taken it to the workshop, cut it into boards and dried them, dressed them and made them into something wonderful will understand the pleasure this gives.

Cheers

Doug

Just as further inspiration. The other day I picked this up off the verge on a kerb side collection.



3 hours later (man hours, there was obviously drying time for glue and poly) there was this in the lounge.



Total cost $5 in materials. Any other questions?

A two year old in 3 hours and $5 unbelievable!

Of not the kid, the table. That is still amazing. Both look great.

Well dale, they say a picture tells a thousand words.
Thank you everyone for your advice and feedback, I took the machinery option to the CFO who didnt say no (but hasnt said yes yet either! )

I have a standard double garage which I share with SWMBO's car. With the exception exception of the workbench everything else is either on wheels (table saw, old dining table as assemble/finishing table) or man portable (mitre saw). With tidying I think I'll be able to fit the jointer in (again, on wheels) and a lunchbox thicknesser would be taken outside to use if going that route.

The question now would be, separate jointer and thicknesser vs one of the combination units.

Jointer: Jet 8" Jointer : CARBA-TEC
Thicknesser: Jet Benchtop 12" Thicknesser : CARBA-TEC

Combo Unit: Carba-Tec® 10" Planer Thicknesser - Cabinet Base : CARBA-TEC
or : Jet Combo Planer/Thicknesser JPT310 & JPT310HH : CARBA-TEC

The Jet combo looks to switch between modes a bit easier (at least from pictures/videos)

Dollars wise there isnt much between a Jet 8 Inch jointer + jet 12inch Thicknesser and a Jet 12 in combination unit, hence dilemma number 2.

Not going to spring for the Helical heads this time round but from what I can see they knife heads can be replaced with helical's after market.

Any advice? I've read a few Combo vs Separate threads and no clear indicator comes out. I've always been wearing of Combination tools as I feel they're a jack of all trades master of none kind of thing. But the space saving qualities of a combo unit appeal to me (although I'd be taking the lunchbox outside anyways).

On the "face" of it the combo unit is 12in wide, but the 8in jointer has a longer bed.

All the Jet jointer and combo unit are on sale presently.

Edit: Realised the Jet combo unit requires a 15A circuit so would need to factor getting a sparkie to wire in an outlet for me. Fortuitously my switchboard is pretty much exactly where I'd put the unit (albeit on the other side of the wall) so that shouldnt cost too much

Originally Posted by Handyjack

A two year old in 3 hours and $5 unbelievable!

Of not the kid, the table. That is still amazing. Both look great.

If I was going to be completely honest about the timeframes the child took about 2 minutes to build (with a fairly different type of wood ).

I don't have experience with any of those machines but I'd be going for the combo. I've just bought a combo machine and have had no dramas switching between the 2 modes. You're better off with a bit more weight when you're using the thicknesser with big pieces of timber. The only thing I could see that could be an issue is repeatability of thicknessing but I've got a digital readout so that's not an issue for me.

Machinery is the right decision mate. I've been making do for about 10 years now and have only got my big gear in the last 3 weeks. It's very inspiring to be able to process any piece of timber you can lay your hands on. I'd pretty much given up on making anything nice because it was so bloody difficult with my limited amount of time I have.

It's a completely different story now.

Originally Posted by jaredr

Any advice? I've read a few Combo vs Separate threads and no clear indicator comes out. I've always been wearing of Combination tools as I feel they're a jack of all trades master of none kind of thing. But the space saving qualities of a combo unit appeal to me (although I'd be taking the lunchbox outside anyways).

On the "face" of it the combo unit is 12in wide, but the 8in jointer has a longer bed.

All the Jet jointer and combo unit are on sale presently.

Edit: Realised the Jet combo unit requires a 15A circuit so would need to factor getting a sparkie to wire in an outlet for me. Fortuitously my switchboard is pretty much exactly where I'd put the unit (albeit on the other side of the wall) so that shouldnt cost too much

I have a combo unit, and like the fact that it saves space over having two machines. It has adjustable beds, so I am always sure it is flat and true.

Mine has a 260 mm wide bed, so I can get widish pieces over/through it. Like most combos, it has a shorter bed than a stand alone jointer ... but I have not found that to be an issue at all. For my money, being able to plane timber up to 260 mm wide is far more important than longer beds, but this is a very personal decision.

Have fun!

John

Hi Jared, and welcome to an excellent forum, as you've already discovered.

Everybody has their own road to follow, which is dictated by funds, space, time available, and dedication level. One thing seems to be certain - those who start down the road rarely leave it.

Some points to note:

• Buying DAR timber can be fraught (sp?) with difficulties. It will almost never be flat without cupping, twists and bends, and the range available is hopeless for character. There is also the size restriction problem.
• As others have noted, there are many small guys on here who can supply some of the most outrageously gorgeous timber a man (or his SWMBO) would wish to see, and more often than not it is not much more expensive than buying dressed crapiata.

Some forecasts:

• SWMBO will become hooked on what you can produce with even the fundamentals of machinery (a smaller investment than purchasing decent furniture)
• Within 12 months your car will reside outside permanently
• Within 3 years, SWMBO's car will be happily parked alongside yours
• Within 5 years you'll be scoping the back yard for where you can build a dedicated shed, or considering a house move
• Your interest in hand tools will grow, especially when you start to see some of the things that people of extraordinary talent on here can produce (and sometimes offer for sale)
• You will develop an excellent knowledge of 3-8 letter acronyms, which will rival even the IT industry (or should that be ITI?)

So, you need to play it psychologically smart . Don't try to get approval from the Minister for too much at one time. Get a decent jointer (definitely helical/spiral head - quieter, easier dust extraction, easy to fix a chipped blade, and oh yeah - a much better finish) and a benchtop thicknesser. You can flog the thicknesser later and get a proper one when you have grown into it. Build up your tools, keeping an eye out in the Market Place for excellent pre-loved stuff. Once SWMBO sees what you can do she will be easier to seduce for the next machine, but she has to understand the need for it (and it is, after all, always a need, never a want). The thicknesser doesn't necessarily have to be a spiral head because with a little careful planning you can run the timber back over the jointer to fix any tearout - you just use the thicknesser to get the two faces parallel.

I have only started this caper in the last 3 years approx, and one thing I have noted as a certainty is that if you buy decent quality tools to begin with, there are a number of outcomes:

• you will learn faster than with crap tools (and be much less frustrated)
• you will always be able to sell good quality tools to the next new guy, and upgrade
• you will forget about the pain of the purchase price pretty damn quickly, but you will remember a crap tool every time you use it

Cheers, and HTH
Brett

FenceFurniture has actually said it very well, I may not fully agree with all his forecast but still very well.

To answer your question concerning combo or separate machines. I originally purchase separate machines but never really looked at combo. If I was to purchase again I will still purchase separate machines. I have the bench top thicknesser and find that I am using this quite often as just an individual machine. It allows me to clean the surface quickly and I use a hand plane for the edge to get it square. If I were to do a number of pieces repeatedly I have used the jointer, a good example would be the table legs.

Thanks everyone for your views (keep 'em coming).

FenceFurniture, my car is already on the road and I can think I have a glimpse of what you're getting at. SWMBO asked if I could make a hallway table (will be my first "inside" project), to which I said sure thing. I put some sketches together and used Google image search for some ideas. Came up with a style she liked and I felt I could accomplish with some degree of quality, later that week: "Can it have drawers too?".

Unfortunately I'm in a newish development and there is no yard for an external workshop so my side of the garage will have to suffice until we get to Phase 4 of FenceFurniture's forecast and we move house.

I took a look at the Jet 12inch combination unit today. At the price point Carba have it ($1760) I cant really afford bumping to Helical heads. I look at it as regular planing knives have worked for quite a few years and still work today as good as yesterday (hopefully).