Thread: Cabinet Making Joinery career path

some thoughts

over your working life accounting will be more financially rewarding than furniture/cabinet making

a degree in accounting tells an employer that you can think and (hopefully) provide the answer required -- it doesn't mean you have to be an accountant a minute longer than you want to

TAFE is an option to learn cabinet making skills, but the 12 month Certificate IV course at Sturt in Mittagong www.sturt.nsw.edu.au/education/1year-fine-furniture is IMO better value, however, the cost (to which you need to add accomodation) might make you quaver.

There's also a degree program at either the ANU or Canberra University, I forget which.


you should sit back and ask yourself
what do I enjoy?
what am I good at?
what am I really good at?
what do I want from a job?
what do I want from a career?
which subjects did I enjoy most during my degree?
which subjects did I least enjoy?
did I do well in a subject because I liked the topic, teacher, or a fellow student?
did I do poorly in a subject because I desteted the topic, teacher, or most of my class mates?
do I like working with other people?
do I like sharing my knowledge?
do I prefer making to designing? or designing to making?


the answers will help you plot a course to where you want to be.

Commercial cabinet making no0wdays isn't what it once was.

It is high turn over, lots of Computer CNC work...out of materials that barely resemble anything to do with wood.... in fact 'wood working' is a poor descriptor for cabinet making these days.

IKEA type technology will reduce the need for cabinet makers... as time progresses - haven't you see the TV make over shows - any idiot can be a cabinet maker these days all you need is a screw driver and a IKEA flat pack.

If you work in Cabinet making commercially you will make square and rectangular boxes most of the week out of melamine (The carcasses of the cabinets). The fumes, dust and spray on finishes, will likely kill you... from some horrible cancerous disease prematurely.

Every other trade - will know all about cabinet making (more than you they will tell you, specially electricians they are smarter than every other trade) and be able to tell you and your clients, how you SHOULD have built the kitchen....

I just don't think you should mistakenly believe you will learn anything about working with real wood in a cabinet making career is all.

With the adventof 3D printing and the changes this will have for the building industry generally, most of these trades will be gone before your working life is over...

Just about everyone re-trains every 6 or so years now, and you'll have a heap of jobs over your lifetime.

Just go in with your eyes open is all... how much call is there for wooden stair case makers etc.... to dream that ypu'll be paid to turn balusters on a lathe and make spiral timber stair cases like they did in the late 1700's is a dream - it ain't gonna happen.

Timbers getting harder and harder to come bye - the tree huggers will have it all locked up within another decade or so...hell you already need a "passport" to travel overseas with your custom shop Gibson guitar for goodness sakes....

Lastly the risk to your fingers is huge.

Many carpenters and cabbies - walk into the pub and hold up a little finger and thumb and ask the bar maid "5 beers thanks love".

Pick again.... cabinet making is a dying trade IMHO.

Drive a truck fly in fly out for the mines and make between 160 - 220k a year, you'll need that kind of cash flow to set yourself up with a house etc now days. You CAN get a nice to do job (ranger, fisheries inspector etc etc) but the reality bites when you have 2 kids 1 job and can't pay your bills making $50k a year!

You'll make so much cash you'll need 2 accountants just to keep track of it!

And lets face it - any idiot can drive a truck.

Ah, but the gentleman has a creative urge that will not be denied and we poor, unfortunate tradesmen know how that feels. One of the great things about working with timber is the diversity of product and occupations. To limit oneself to only one area of woodworking may prove to be regretable in the not too distant future. A wider range of skills will be required to stay abreast of the changes taking place within many areas of society. If there is is one stand out requirement, it is skill. The better you are at what you do, the easier it is to find work. Provided the skills you have are required. A boilermaker, today, rarely makes boilers but has no trouble finding work as a welder or other forms of metal fabrication. So how does this relate to wood trades? As TT said, cabinet makeing days may well be numbered. The competition is strong, your prices must remain competitive and speed is the essence. Without the later the former is a lost cause. Cabinetmakers are two bob a dozen.
Furnituremakers, the self indulgent side of woodworking (I love it) is probably one of the most creativity satisfying lines of work to be in. Money? Well that depends. How many people want your work and how much are they prepared to pay? How efficient are your methods? What happens in tight economic times? Again, diversity plays an important part. I am a qualified builder as well as a custom furniture maker. I prefer to make furniture, but when times are tight, it becomes necessary to take up the cudgel once again.

Yes,

I once worked out that - when doing the "self indulgent" furniture making, (and owning our land, factory, and machines... i.e minimal 'materials' debt) I was making about $3 an hour!

If it wasn't for the cabinet making and joinery on houses - we couldn't have kept the doors open for 20 years by making just funriture!

BUT

These trades are a far cry from what those with metal trades skills are making in the mines these days.

Our whole economy and banking system now, is geared to those who make $120K + a year....(And have hubby and wife working.. so closer to $200K take home a year).

Go in to a big bank earning $50K as a cabbie... with 1 or 2 kids & a stay at home wife.... and ask for a mortgage - they will laugh you out of the place.

30% deposit for a mortgage? Good luck saving that up!

In years past (our parents generations) you could buy a block, save to build a shed on it - move into the shed (to save paying rent) and then save a deposit to get a mortgage from the bank for a 2 x 1 house.

Then after 10 years when the 2nd child got to say 8 or so years old and sharing a bedroom between 2 kids was no longer convenient... you had sufficient equity to borrow to add a couple bedrooms & family room and 2nd bathroom... and it became today's 4 x 2.

Now tho... its against the law to live in a shed on your block - the shire rangers will fine and send you to jail. (Yeah because the land lords who are on the shire council want their pound of flesh, they want you as a rental tenant for life, - not to get ahead in life and become a land lord like them).

So the "rules" today require that unless your combined household income is above 1/4mil a year - your on the poverty line.

If your not in that league - the banks won't want to know you.

A trade as a cabby is never likely to put you there unless your parents own IKEA!

You need enough deposit today to build a 4 x 2 with theater, below ground pool, and everything that opens and shuts, and to pay compound interest on all those unused rooms for 10 years while your DINKS (Double Income No Kids)....

The rules of the game have changed.

If you want to start your life behind the 8 ball and stay there for the rest of it - start out as a cabbie... while the dropkicks out of school who couldn't count past 10 without their shoes off - get to drive the mine trucks and make $200+k a year working 3 on 2 off!

Hell, if your driving a truck for the mines and killing the pig income wise, - you can get creative making wood stuff in your own home workshop on your 2 weeks off!.

What was "good advice" a generation ago (about always having a trade to fall back on) doesn't seem to apply any more.

I don't like it the way it is now, but we are kidding ourselves if we pretend it's any different.

Unfortunately, and generally speaking, you're likely to earn more with your head than you are with your hands. Sounds like you need to define your priorities in life.

As a carpenter/joiner (who was taught traditional stairbuilding), I can tell you that I have not had much trouble over the years finding work. I am fortunate enough to have developed a broad skillset that allows me to move freely between any carpentry/joinery/cabinetmaking/shopfitting related field. I am also very fortunate to be extremely good at what I do and have often been hired on the spot if I have applied for a job. All this however, has not made me financially well off.

Might I suggest that to further investigate the financial possibilities of such a trade, you speak to as many of your accounting acquaintances as possible and see how many traditional tradies they have on their books that are making a hefty profit or living a lavish lifestyle. My guess is there would be very few if any.

On the other hand, if your desire to work in a field that you are truly passionate about, then creating beautiful things can most definitely be more rewarding on a personal level than a fat bank account.

Also, consider direct outlays/expenses an accountant has vs a modest cabinetmakers necessary tools of trade (easily tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands in some cases).

Finally, trade papers rarely make a tradie. Don't feel you must work or study fulltime in this particular area to become good at it. Practice makes perfect.

Good luck with whatever decision you make.

Craig.

I agree with Craig, he's summed it up rather well. I've never been asked for my papers and a boss will know in 2 hours how well / fast you can do the work. Quality furniture, for most people, can be postponed. The things people need are windows, doors, stairs and cupboards. Shopfitting, in my experience, is the most profitable and can be very interesting. I'm semi retired now and do electric and acoustic luthiery to keep it interesting and satisfying. If a kitchen or vanity comes my way, I buy Ikea boxes and hardware and make custom doors, drawers and benchtops.

I had the same dilemma for a long time. I work in a totally unrelated industry, but love working with wood. I tossed up the idea of switching careers to give it a go full time, but consistently got the message everyone here is saying- it's a hard slog, and not necessarily doing what you love a lot of the time.
So I made the decision to stay in my (well paid) career, and use the funds to finance a decent workshop, and keep woodworking as my hobby, not my job. I've been able to stick to making things I want to make, further my skills, and meet like minded people.
Just my two cents.

I am guessing you are young. No responsibilities (otherwise you would still be bean counting). Give it a go, you can always change your mind. I possess 2 professional degrees (many years ago) and only worked at one of those professions, and at that only a few years - found something more interesting to do. But no regrets for the time studying. Only 1 of my 3 children is working at the occupation of the first degree. Try a number of occupations. I suspect working as a wood machinist will pale pretty quickly, but hell, only you can find that out. Remember virtually every profession is over supplied today, but there will always be a demand for work that cannot be carried out overseas.

Would like to expand on my earlier post before this thread continues with a particular tone.

As I mentioned earlier, "Sounds like you need to define your priorities in life".

I had the opportunity to study accounting on leaving high school and opted for my trade and have never regretted my decision for a minute.

Have always lived hand to mouth, but have also lived a career life of creative fulfilment.

Craig.

FWIW I'm 38, have been out of work for many years (due to being a nutjob) and currently chasing a carpentry apprenticeship.

I spent a year chasing the dream of being a furniture/cabinet maker (but refusing to work with chipboard/melamine...ie: modern joinery (locally anyway)) but decided after finding it impossible to get a foot in the door and seeing as a chippie earns more than a furniture guy (and joiner apparently) that carpentry would satisfy my needs for a good day of hard work and reasonable income.

Previously I was in IT doing web and mobile phone development, and earning considerably more than a tradie, but ultimately extremely unsatisfied and very, VERY depressed over the value of my work and life.

I'm ok with this change in career/earnings because I'm the kind of guy that has few responsibilities (other than a kidlette) but truly believe that one should be satisfied and happy with their day job and be able to pursue other interests in their spare time - which I also thinks make you a nicer, more relaxed and calmer person to be around. As long as I can pay the bills, money usually has little value to me (other than always being too broke to do anything big - gov't pension)...but that's just me.

Is that you?

Follow your heart...the rest be damned. And if your heart's not in it...do something else



Oh, and as an aside...I respect "blue collars" more than I do "whites" because without the blues the world would be a pretty barren place. (Not that the whites aren't worthwhile, they just wouldn't have anywhere to work without the blues )

Hoplite101
This just came unbidden in my letter box today. This is the Macca's of cabinet making IMHO, and I guess is what is filing the void of the old defunct cabinet making businesses.

IMG_0299.jpg

Lots of people saying follow your heart....
About 14 years ago i tried a change of career and was able to organise a years leave of absence with out pay to try it out.
Best decision I ever made career wise. After realising it was all smoke and mirrors, I went back to the old job.
Now I am working in a another field and nearing retirement.
I guess I'm saying two things. 1. If you don't start moving you never will & 2. If you are in a good stable job, use the resources you have there to help you move on.
For me that failed attempt led me to my current position, and I have never regretted it.

TT

Originally Posted by Twisted Tenon

Hoplite101
This just came unbidden in my letter box today. This is the Macca's of cabinet making IMHO, and I guess is what is filing the void of the old defunct cabinet making businesses.

IMG_0299.jpg
TT

Without demand there is no need for supply...

Take that as you will wether in relation to cheap imports that we dispose of with each change of season, or the bygone era of commissioned items that accompanied their byer through life's journey.

We, the consumers, allow all the so called "Maccas" to monopolise their markets. We either want it now, or we want what's in vogue. True artisan trades could flourish once again if the general populous created the demand. Nothing wrong with being frugal, but always opting for the far cheaper product will always have massive negative and widespread consequences.

Anyone passionate about woodworking and talented enough should be able to make a fair and comfortable living from it. I love my trade, but the trade-offs I've made in life in order to do it bring me little joy. May I suggest we all vote with our wallets and reinstate some of the dignity and entitlements the average tradie deserves.

Apologies for what has turned into a hijacked thread Hoplite101, but your humble query has obviously touched a nerve in a few of us.

Craig.

Hear, hear CMB

I'm a wood machinist by trade, I did my time in a kitchen/ joinery shop, (mostly melamine but with at least a once a fortnight timber stair/ cabinet door etc job to wet my timber appetite) I spent nearly every day either making whiteboard boxes or out delivering them or being "muscle" by holding things whilst the installer fitted them.
I loved that job except for the fact everything had to be done right now and you barely got to sit back and enjoy the satisfaction of making something,
I moved interstate and got a job as a wood machinist in a shop fitting company, the foreman didn't want to see my trade certificate, he said "I will know by smoko if you will work out or not".
Again I enjoyed the job but got sick of people in management telling me how to do a job they didn't know how to do, so I wanted to bethe one who called the shots, so I worked my way up to project manager and finally had some control and started making some decent money, but I was then responsible for a lot of other people and any mistakes they made, as I don't like being blamed for other peoples uselessness I soon got tired of it so I left, I am now between Full time jobs and I just work out of my tiny garage making small items, I have no responsibilities other than rent and a car loan and what I do barely pays bills( that's where the wife comes in) but I am more happier than I have ever been, i can't continue if we want to get ahead inlife ie: kids/mortgage etc but for now I am happy but I know I will have to make a change if I want to make the serious money needed these days to get those things,

Sorry for the somewhat long winded story but in response to the OP do what makes you happy if money isn't the be all and end all,
If money is everything, then as said above get job FIFO and do your woodwork when you get your weeks offs.
thats just MHO so take it for what you will
Cheers Ben