Thread: Made in China

This is a good question. China has a powerhouse economy that, like other Asian giants, started with products like trade goods and grew in sophistication and quality as the years have passed.
It is cheaper to manufacture in China because of lower wage costs and a lower standard of environmental care. This does not necessarily mean that the products themselves are poor. There are many excellent quality items coming out of China and among these are high end tools.
Just as every Australian manufacturer of hand planes in the 1950's wasn't top drawer, and some were simply awful while others were excellent, so also there are variations in quality coming out of China.
The latest iterations of Quangsheng handplanes are a case in point. These are highly regarded across the woodworking community, and are seen as not just good value but high quality as well.
By all means buy tools made in China if they meet your needs and do the job well.
There is an old saying:
Perfection is the enemy of good enough
and we often fall into the trap of expecting all our tools to be perfect, when there are plenty of good enough ones about to do the job well, and still give us satisfaction and pleasure in use.
Cheers
SG

Originally Posted by Bin57again

The counter-argument seems to be "yeh, made in [x] but built to [German] spec".

The thing is...(for powertools at least).... there is not a great deal of difference in the method of manufacture between a dodgy tool and an acceptable, (or even a very good) product.
The chinese, (being an astute lot) are realizing that making a little extra effort will increase their sales (and consequently their profits)...which in turn will make them wealthier......and therefore get them invited to better parties

Chinese made tools can be very good, but there are a number of cultural mindsets in China that can reduce the effect of quality control.

Where you might stereotype Germans as 'disciplined' or Japanese as 'loyal to organisation' or Koreans as 'hard working' or British as 'cautious' or Greeks as 'at lunch, call tomorrow...make that the day after', the words for China are 'saving face' and 'compromise'. Quality is still a vague concept - add a still corruptible enforcement regime, and you end up with a fair amount of variation in product.

Sure, the factory might be making (product) for (big brand name) on the day shift, but come the dog shift and that container-load of bearings that got rejected by the QC guy from (big brand name) are being used in the Joyous Happy Mouth Flying Swallow brand knock-off of whatever the day shift was making. You'll note too, that the QC guy from (big brand name) will also be inspecting the things supposedly assembled with the bearings he approved to make sure that they really are the bearings he approved and not duds that 'somehow' got mixed in with the good ones.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that some of the knock-offs that appear aren't actually knock-offs but rejected production batches done as a face saving compromise with the factory: "These aren't going to meet our standards, but if you want to slap a new label and cheap box on them we can provide them to our distributors at an attractive price so that you won't be out of pocket for them."

It seems that everything in China is negotiable. Like the look of Product A, but want to get it for less? No problem, they will oblige, but it will not be Product A anymore, to trim the price, they will adjust the labour content, material quality, material specification, production method, or overall design to suit the revised price.

Examples from the furniture game, outdoor chairs and tables, reduce tube thickness from 1.8mm to 1.2mm (not externally visible), chair backs might have one less slat, welds not linished/polished properly, very light coats of paint, paint not UV resistant etc. BBQs support frame 1.6mm wall reduced to 1mm wall, infill panels down to .8mm thickness, poor paintwork.

I am sure that there are reputable importers buying quality product from China, and ensuring that it meets their manufacturing specs and QA procedures, but there are also cut throat importers who want to compete by bringing in the cheapest lookalike that they can get, then position the item to retail under the reputable importers product and maximise their margins.

I guess if you buy a product of known parentage, with reasonable warranty provisions etc, at a price similar to reputable competitors equivalent product, you should get reasonable product. If you buy something nominally similar at a substantial discount, then you may get a bargain, or you may get a pig in a poke. You pay your money and take your chances.

Ahhh - that explains the difference between a drill and a "drill-shaped object"

We wonder how they can make a tool that sells for only $20 or so here (bearing in mind the tooling for mouldings, materials, etc.), but I've been told that the 'factory gate' price for these items is typically less than $5.....i.e. the majority of the final price we pay is just the markups along the way.

Stop using the phrase "Made in China" and instead say "Built to Specification".

China has a million factories. They are for hire. You contract them to build something for you, and you specify exactly what you want by way of tolerances, etc. I imagine that Chinese factories can do anything that German factories can ... but with cheaper labour costs.

Blame the cheap products and the lower tolerances of tools you buy on the company that contracts the factory to build the tool at the price point they desire. It is not "Made in China" - it is "Built to Specification".

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Stop using the phrase "Made in China" and instead say "Built to Specification".

China has a million factories. They are for hire. You contract them to build something for you, and you specify exactly what you want by way of tolerances, etc. I imagine that Chinese factories can do anything that German factories can ... but with cheaper labour costs.

Blame the cheap products and the lower tolerances of tools you buy on the company that contracts the factory to build the tool at the price point they desire. It is not "Made in China" - it is "Built to Specification".

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well said! It also satisfies the market demand.

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

It wouldn't surprise me to find that some of the knock-offs that appear aren't actually knock-offs but rejected production batches done as a face saving compromise with the factory: "These aren't going to meet our standards, but if you want to slap a new label and cheap box on them we can provide them to our distributors at an attractive price so that you won't be out of pocket for them."

That happens everywhere with things like timber and vegetables right through to bearings and computer chips and it has nothing to do with saving face. It's just one way way of operating when you make a zillion of 'em.

Master Splinter: Spot on the money, and very eloquently said. One slight mod, from my point of view - certainly their culture is steeped in saving face (read James Clavell books) as the Japanese culture is. However, I believe that there's a shift towards lovely western capitalism and the Chinese are there to relieve us of our cash (which is bloody well theirs in the first place) in units as big as we decide to give them (or back to them).

Doesn't anyone remember the term "Jap Crap" which entered Australian vernacular in the late 60's? It's possibly a little politically incorrect now, but at the time it was true - Japanese made products then were generally rubbish. But look at 'em now. Where we used to eschew buying "Made in Japan", we now seek it out, knowing that it generally means very good quality. "I learn, Mr Fawlty, I learn!". And both nations have/are. China is still on it's learning curve, that's all. *^#ken fast learners though, eh?

I mean they, one of the very last remaining communist powers, have got the West, and in particular the USA, completely stitched up. They lend us money and we then give it back to them in exchange for goods. Then we give it back to them again, but this time it's with interest, and this time all we get in return is "thanks for your business, do come again sucker". Furthermore, if we can't repay the debt, they then allow us to save face - "No problem, which part of your farm do you want to give us at bargain basement price? Please pardon the very merest hint of satisfaction on my colleague's face, but he is very pleased with our nation's business model". Its bloody brilliant!

I have a Makite BTD144 impact driver, mad in Japan. It's also made there. I have a Makita BHP454 hammer drill, made in China. To look at them you'd swear that they came out of the same factory. To use either of them, you just say "WOW, these are made to spec, not to price"! I have a Ryobi clunker drill, made in China. Not a piece of crap, but on that road, and made to a price, not a spec.

Derek: yes, absolutely. It's us that sets the spec/price ratio, not the Chinese. If anyone is to blame for crap products it's the importers and other companies that contract the Chinese to do a job for them. If it was only the good stuff that was requisitioned then the general opinion would be higher. China is in the infancy of manufacturing in a Western mode, and like any infant they need to be shown how to do new things.

Enough, Brett

A quick addendum: a chap that I know worked for the CSIRO in the seventies. One of the engineers there sent a rod of stainless steel with a ridiculously small diameter over to his counterpart in Japan with a note that said

A couple of weeks later he received the little rod back on his desk, but there was no note. Upon closer inspection he noticed that the rod was now a tube. He refrained from sending his other latest achievements over there.

There is no doubt that China can make things just as good as anyone else. But they can’t do too much if you are giving them $1 for a set of drill bits. Give them $50 and they will make you something as good as Festool. Give them $700 for a plane and Bridge City will be out of business.

You keep buying cheap tools they will keep making cheap tools. So why do you have to have everything so cheap?

Every time you buy cheap products from China, you are ripping them off. You are ripping the factory workers off. You are ripping the country off. You are ripping the environment off. So why don’t you stop?

Originally Posted by Wongo

There is no doubt that China can make things just as good as anyone else. But they can’t do too much if you are giving them $1 for a set of drill bits. Give them $50 and they will make you something as good as Festool. Give them $700 for a plane and Bridge City will be out of business.

You keep buying cheap tools they will keep making cheap tools. So why do you have to have everything so cheap?

Every time you buy cheap products from China, you are ripping them off. You are ripping the factory workers off. You are ripping the country off. You are ripping the environment off. So why don’t you stop?

You forgot one thing Wongo. You are also ripping yourself off, maybe literally by using cheap tools.
Cheers,
Jim

Thats why I don't buy them.

I think we have to be realistic in our expectations of cheap tools, not only those from China.

When we pay a low price for tools, or anything else for that matter, we can't and shouldn't expect the same quality and durability that we should expect from high priced tools.

I have found though that there is not always a direct correlation between price and quality/durability. I have bought some expensive tools and been very disappointed and likewise have bought cheaper tools and been pleasantly surprised.

There is a lot of cheap stuff coming out of India and the former eastern European countries, some is good, some is awful.