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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Australia
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    5

    Default Church's journey to dovetail jointing

    So I've sought out to learn how to make dovetail joints,
    I'm a new to woodworking and saving up to buy a table saw or router in a few weeks, but I really want to make a strong jointed box for my girlfriend.

    So let's start with my third attempt.

    Pin side


    Tail Side


    The technique I was doing was sawing abit over size towards the waste side when making the tailside, then getting closer and closer to my scribed lines slowly checking how it fits.

    As you can see I've taken off to much in some areas and not enough in some areas, but I'm beginning to see how this joinery works.
    I think my problem could be that the saw I'm using (Trojan Dovetail saw) is too thick for this work and making the starting cuts bigger than it should be.

    So anyone got any tips? I know this an abysmal attempt but hey I'm learning and it only gets better

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth W.A
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Hi Church, you definitely need more practice.
    Forgive me if I am mistaken bu you have cut the dovetails the wrong way, rather than interlocking your joint will pull apart if pulled from either side.

    I normally cut my tails first and then lay the piece over the other part of the drawer or carcase and then scribe around them with a stanley knife, then carefully cut just inside with the saw.

    A couple of years ago I made a commission tool chest with 10 drawers dovetailed front and back.
    I used a Veritas magnetic dovetail guide with matching saw and worked very well.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    sydney
    Posts
    60

    Default

    First post, been lurking around for some weeks.

    Been trying dovetails a lot recently. As an utter beginner my stomach a bit bigger than my skill. I would second the veritas magnetic guide. I got it and it makes the cutting the simplest thing. The only downside is that I got far to enthusiastic and invert the cut directions so they don't lock. Also have a bit of a struggle with clearing the material. I killed a chisel trying to pay the excess waste away (broke the tip using it a lever).

    Alignment can be a bugger. If you have anyway that works without a vise I would appreciate hearing about it.
    alastair

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth W.A
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Try using a coping saw to cut out the waste in between pins and tails and trim with dovetail chisel.
    Using drill bits is handy when dealing with lapped dovetails as it makes it much easier to chisel out then wate.

    Tapers are usually 1:7 for softwood and 1:9 for hardwood

    Very small pins look the best in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by lithro View Post
    First post, been lurking around for some weeks.

    Been trying dovetails a lot recently. As an utter beginner my stomach a bit bigger than my skill. I would second the veritas magnetic guide. I got it and it makes the cutting the simplest thing. The only downside is that I got far to enthusiastic and invert the cut directions so they don't lock. Also have a bit of a struggle with clearing the material. I killed a chisel trying to pay the excess waste away (broke the tip using it a lever).

    Alignment can be a bugger. If you have anyway that works without a vise I would appreciate hearing about it.
    alastair

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mark david View Post
    Hi Church, you definitely need more practice.
    Forgive me if I am mistaken bu you have cut the dovetails the wrong way, rather than interlocking your joint will pull apart if pulled from either side.

    I normally cut my tails first and then lay the piece over the other part of the drawer or carcase and then scribe around them with a stanley knife, then carefully cut just inside with the saw.

    A couple of years ago I made a commission tool chest with 10 drawers dovetailed front and back.
    I used a Veritas magnetic dovetail guide with matching saw and worked very well.
    Ahh I see, I'll try doing the tails first thanks so much for the feedback, yeah i need alot more practice but i'm getting there

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,820

    Default

    Church, all effort will be rewarded. Don't stop.

    Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibyTMTLjaq8

    Then watch it again a minimum of 3 times. Watch the technique, look at the detail, watch his economy of hand movements. Watch how he uses his fingers to hold the chisel and adjust for fine cuts. Really observe and skip nothing. THREE times...

    Then give it another go.

    Dovetails are hard to master. The video makes them look trivial, but he's a deeply seasoned pro. But from a pro you learn.

    Once you "get it", that magical "A-Ha!" moment, it will really go fast. It will take you a few goes. Don't be discouraged.... After all your efforts, even ours, we sometimes end up with interestingly shaped firewood

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    70

    Default

    A couple more videos that i found very helpful for dovetailing:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ALorfQYXeq1_g0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYjoj6cfno

    I personally don't use a guide to cut the tails. Mine are definitely not perfect and do have gaps, but i found it more fun to do so completely old fashioned (i also chisel out the waste, rather than using a coping/fret saw).

    Another point - it looks like your using pine - nothing wrong with that, but from my experience it is actually harder using a softer wood than a harder one. You need really sharp chisels for softer wood as it compresses and bruises easily.

    I found that getting some vic ash/tassy oak from bunnings for playing around with, my dovetails improved dramatically.

    Keep at it though, its addictive and you'll find that you have to put dovetails at every joint soon ;-)

    Cheers

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marphlix View Post
    A couple more videos that i found very helpful for dovetailing:

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ALorfQYXeq1_g0

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYjoj6cfno

    I personally don't use a guide to cut the tails. Mine are definitely not perfect and do have gaps, but i found it more fun to do so completely old fashioned (i also chisel out the waste, rather than using a coping/fret saw).

    Another point - it looks like your using pine - nothing wrong with that, but from my experience it is actually harder using a softer wood than a harder one. You need really sharp chisels for softer wood as it compresses and bruises easily.

    I found that getting some vic ash/tassy oak from bunnings for playing around with, my dovetails improved dramatically.

    Keep at it though, its addictive and you'll find that you have to put dovetails at every joint soon ;-)

    Cheers
    Yeah I'm using pine, might try some ash or oak, I got some cheap trojan chisels, that might be the reason why I'm not cutting well too.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    70

    Default

    I also have trojan chisels (and aldi ones). I find nothing wrong with them, as long as they are sharp. I test by seeing if i can shave hairs off my arm.

    Paul Sellars also has some good videos on sharpening. Don't even need stones. A couple of grits of wet and dry and a bit of glass (or some other flat surface).

    I also remember Derek has some good tips and a jig for ensuring square dovetails (this is the part i struggle with):
    http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...Dovetails.html



    Cheers

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,820

    Default

    Debs is selling a set of stones in the marketplace right now. Buy them. Now.

    The chisels you have are fine, sharpen them. When you get better you can lash out on some hand crafted masterpieces by a Japanese wizard... But wait.

    A basic set of tools will get you a VERY long way.

    If you are one who reads, get a book by Chris Schwarz called The Anarchists Toolchest. It will enlighten you. I like its ideals of stoic minimalism, but I'm a hopeless victim of advertising and like the shiny toys....but they are not better nd don't make me a better craftsman.

    A basic saw, a simple chisel, a sharp retractable knife and a mallet are all you need.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Westleigh, Sydney
    Age
    77
    Posts
    9,542

    Default

    Here is a link to a set of notes on cutting dovetails, prepared for my classes.
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  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    925

    Default

    Okay then. You need some reasonable tools.
    a good dovetail saw. 14 tip Veritas saw is a good start
    a square square. Not all squares are really 90 degrees
    a marking knife. I hardly ever mark out with a pencil.
    a marking guage
    small really, properly razor sharp chisels
    a fret saw or coping saw.
    lots of practice.
    Then lots more practice
    The pine you get at Hareware stores is cheap but I don't really like joining with it. It can be a dog to chisel across the grain.
    My age is still less than my number of posts

  14. #13
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    Apr 2012
    Location
    Sydney
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    Nicely put together Alex, though I must say that's a very striking colour of nail polish!

  15. #14
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    Jun 1999
    Location
    Westleigh, Sydney
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    Glad you like the colour, Hiroller.

    Chook's list is pretty well spot on. The fret saw is helpful but not essential. I'd add a bench with vice.

    I've used radiata pine in the notes, but it's probably the worst wood to use. Pretty well anything else will be an improvement, but the softer the wood, the less forgiving it is of blunt chisels.
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  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Just like to say I was very self concious to show my awful attempt at dovetails but thank you all for your support and help in getting these dovetails right.
    I think what I'll buy next is a scribe, marking gauge, tassie oak, Veritas Dovetail saw and dovetail marking guide.

    The only video I really liked was this one
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIpN8yWEqNQ

    It really help me understand what I need to understand and learn when first learning dovetails because even someone like Adam Savage struggled heaps.

    The other links you guys gave me really helps a whole lot
    Thanks

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