Thread: The cold and glue!

I saw one the guys using a heat lamp in his YouTube vid. He lives in the northern US.

A warm heated environment would be beneficial. Perhaps bring the 'project' inside the house to cure after glue-up?

A polyurethane glue would probably be better than PVA in the cold. It cures by chemical reaction, not evaporation, so it's less temperature sensitive

Originally Posted by dave_c

Hi All, It's starting to get cold down here in Tassie, first fall of snow and loving it. i would like to know what people do in the colder months when gluing up? Glues seem to be rated only down to 5-10 deg c. I don't want joints failing because the glue in on the edge of its bonding capabilities because of the cold. I've been using Kleiberit 303 pva would one of the Titebonds or the Purbond glues be better choice in the colder months? Guess another option would be a fire in the workshop!!

Greetings,

You've got a problem that I've had some experience with, as I used to live in Canada for a few years, and managing wood glue-ups in very cold climates is something that I've had to deal with.

I just had a look at the Titebond Australia web site. The readily available Titebond glues in retail sized packs in AU are Titebond Original, Titebond II, and Titebond III. According to the manufacturer, those glues have "minimum use temperatures" of 10 Degrees C, 13 Decrees C and 8 Degrees C respectively.

They do have a "Titebond Regular" which can be used down to 2 Degrees C, but I haven't seen it in retail sized packs in Australia - only in 20 litre and bigger industrial size containers, and then only at specialist industrial adhesives suppliers. I used to use Titebond Regular in 1 Litre Bottles when I lived for a while in Calgary CA, and it was good as long as the workshop could be heated to at least a few degrees above zero, as in winter it was usually -10 degrees or lots colder outside.

Here's a link to the Titebond Glue Specifications: http://www.titebond.com.au/PDFs/Woodbond_Brochure_2.pdf

Check around in Tas and Melbourne - you might find Titebond Regular available in the colder climates - not much call for it in sunny Queensland. Maybe ring Woodbond Australia who are the Australian Titebond importers - their contact details are on their web site.

In the absence of Titebond Regular, Titebond III would probably be your best bet, but you'll have to warm the workshop to above 8 degrees, and keep the temp there until the glue has fully cured. Below 8 degrees most PVA style glue start congeal, making them unusable. If you can warm the workshop to above 10 degrees, then Titebond Original will cure much quicker than Titebond III at the same temperature. The glue and the workpiece being glued-up needs to have evenly warmed up to the workshop's temperature before you try to glue. I saw a lot of Canadian Woodworkers in workshops that were heated to between 3 and 10 degrees who would place the glue bottle in a warm water bath at about 20 degrees C to warm the glue well before use.

Also - in case you don't know - store your glues in a warm place in the heated part of the house, as most Titebond style glues will spoil if exposed to repeated sub zero temperatures.

I checked the Selley's web site for the specs on their PVA glues (Aquadhere etc) and they seem to require higher temps than Titebond, although they don't seem to offer as detailed specs as Titebond.

I also noted from that Titebond Specifications Sheet states that Titebond Polyurethane has a 10 Degree C minimum use temperature, so using a Polyurethane glue, as suggested by another forumite, doesn't sound like a good idea to me, unless you can warm the glue and the workshop and workpiece.

Gee - I'm glad I live in a warm climate now.

Regards,

RoyG

You live in Tassie and don't have a heater in your workshop! That is brave, yesterday it would have frozen the nuts off a tractor round here.
The Kleiberit 303 glue does take a while to set even in mild temps.
Even epoxy glues which are chemically setting take noticeably longer on the cold days.
End of the day, or several days in cold weather the glues will all eventually set generally without fear of failure.

Originally Posted by artful bodger

End of the day, or several days in cold weather the glues will all eventually set generally without fear of failure.

Not according to West Systems in regard to their epoxy .....

RoyG

Hi,
PVA dries in the cold but does not set, it becomes powdery and does not hold any more than two bits of dry timber. We have a temperature range of -9*c to 39*c so when things need to be between 10 and 30*c we have fun at both end at times.
Regards

Originally Posted by RoyG

Not according to West Systems in regard to their epoxy .....

RoyG

Really? Ok, I might have got that one wrong. But the epoxy glue I use does eventually work when it's cold.

Hi,
PVA dries in the cold but does not set, it becomes powdery and does not hold any more than two bits of dry timber. We have a temperature range of -9*c to 39*c so when things need to be between 10 and 30*c we have fun at both end at times.
Regards

Blimey! Double wrong here then.(How embarrassing).
Never seen it go powdery before (PVA).
There ya go eh? Learn something new everyday.
Wonder what glue the chippies down in Antarctica use?

Originally Posted by artful bodger

.....Wonder what glue the chippies down in Antarctica use?

They learn to Weld metal.

Just to be clear chemical processes (which are involved in the setting of all glues - evaporation may be part of the process but rarely it is *all* of the process) (shellac being one exception) are related to temperature. The process is slower in colder temperatures and if the temperature is too low then the process halts altogether. If the temperature is too high then there are other issues such as other chemical processes occurring too rapidly to form the bond.

The bottom line id stick to the manufacturers recommendations or it will all end in tears. They will always specify the conditions , but in any case the glue must not freeze. In some instances the glue can become unusable once it has frozen and is a bin job after that.

Interestingly Sellys (perfectly good glue - unless you are a Titebond snob) Aquadhere regular and exterior only say that the glue will set more slowly in cold conditions. They do not specify a lower limit, obviously you don't want the glue to freeze.

On the up side the open time is increased considerably at 3 C.

I've never had a problem with epoxy and cold, but beware of using it at below condensation temperatures. Apparently, this can weaken the bond. Someone with more expertise than me may be able to confirm.

Thankyou all for your help and experience, i'll try and find an old woodheater for the shed. Next time i am buying glue might try one of the titebond glues
Cheers
Dave