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Thread: Room within a Room Construction
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9th May 2021, 08:20 PM #1New Member
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Room within a Room Construction
I'm currently in the process of converting a rental garage into a work shop (exciting), however i need to soundproof it or at least make it so there is less sound being transmitted across to a relatively quiet neighbourhood.
The garage is 6m x 3m with a 2.3m ceiling height approx. My plan is to build out panels of 1200x2200mm with stud frame construction which will be lined and insulated, then i'll bolt these together around the room (except for the garage door side as it may need to be used to get materials into the shop). As its a rental i'm trying not to fix the panels to the existing walls, ceilings or floor which is where the issues comes in. I'm planning to add ceiling joists at say 600mm centres to prevent the walls from falling but am running into two design problems;
1) how far of a span can i get from standard timber (my budget isnt endless and the ceiling height would be nice to keep around 2.2?). My research into ceiling joist spanning 3m mainly leads to load bearing 130 - 150 x 45mm stock but is that necessary in this case?
2) will the walls just cave in regardless of the ceiling joists? As i don't have them fixed to the floor will they just topple?
Hoping to nut out this nagging questions before i start getting all the materials.
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9th May 2021 08:20 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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9th May 2021, 10:03 PM #2SENIOR MEMBER
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What are you planning to line the ceiling with? You have a bit of conflict here, as you need mass to prevent sound transmission, but that makes it heavy so light weight construction isn't compatible with that.
A 3m 2x4 would span 3m, with a little sag. But the more weight you add the more sag.
Eg, soundcheck plaster is heavy. But a lightweight lining won't sag as much but won't block much sound.
Not sure of the acoustic properties of foam board/foil board, but it is certainly light.
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10th May 2021, 06:16 AM #3New Member
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definitely a conflict! Above the ceiling is my apartment so i'm less fussed with reducing all the sound transmission but was going to line the ceiling with polyester batts and leave the batts exposed to reduce the weight on the ceiling from a board lining. I figured that any boards (PB or OSB) would weigh down the sag and eventually lead to the structure collapsing in on itself.
essentially the ceiling is there to apply rigidity to the wall panels so they don't fall, so a light lining is ok.
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10th May 2021, 06:20 AM #4New Member
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Just had a thought could probably replace the PB lining for the ceiling with foam boards. so polyester batts and foam board lining perhaps the insulation stuff to keep costs down.
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10th May 2021, 08:01 AM #5GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Flack. The 3M end walls will help brace the 6M walls and if the garage door is in 1 of the 3M ends then using a beam to brace the top would help. 90mm x 45mm pine won't collapse over 3M and installing them at 300mm centres should alllow you to attach some sort of lining (but then you could buy 140 x 45 and install at 600mm centres for less).
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10th May 2021, 03:53 PM #6
Not trying to be difficult, but if your intent is to leave the garage door "as is", why are you bothering with sound proofing the walls and ceiling?
I'm expecting the garage door will act as a drum skin -- transmitting any sound with effectively zero attenuation.
You live above the garage, so unless you are planning on industrial (sort of) use, "normal" noise limits should apply.regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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10th May 2021, 05:39 PM #7New Member
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Sorry just realised i forgot to write the thought process of the door properly I'm planning to cover the garage door with layers of moving blankets on a curtain rail, means that i can stop some of the highs/mid and reverb from bouncing onto the garage door, whilst still being able to use the door if needed. The goal here is to reduce the sound emission onto the street of a woodworking shop with multiple (big) power tools going. I'm happy to have some sound coming out as doing a full detachment is almost impossible. Reducing the DBA heard outside but still maintaining the garage as a semi functional space (i.e my partner would get a little cranky if i closed the garage door permanently). Normally i wouldn't bother with this but the unit is part of a larger block so noise could be issue.
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10th May 2021, 05:40 PM #8New Member
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This is what i suspected i would have to do! Thanks for clearing up my nagging issues!
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10th May 2021, 07:32 PM #9SENIOR MEMBER
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What is the garage construction? I was thinking 'tin shed' style, but if you live over it, is suspect more substantial?
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10th May 2021, 09:02 PM #10New Member
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A tin shed would be better tbh. It's literally the concrete supports with masonite sheets fixed to it. So no insulation and the mass comes predominantly from the concrete drive and supports as well as the structure above.
Essentially its like having paper walls around a cave.
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10th May 2021, 09:39 PM #11GOLD MEMBER
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Put thin batts into the frame then sheet with pegboard sheeting, or perforated ply, the sound goes in and is absorbed. It works.
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11th May 2021, 01:35 AM #12
Have you considered talking to your landlord?
If as you say, what you have now are "essentially paper walls", the landlord might be amenable to those walls being "beefed up" to include some additional mass or insulation for sound proofing.
Overall, your "best option" might be to semi-permanently attach the new walls to the structural frames (concrete columns?) and to replace the masonite "curtains" when you move out. That option is possibly much cheaper than attempting to build self supporting removable sound proofing walls.
Living in Tasmania, you will need some thickish insulation (I can't recommend what R value would be appropriate) to make the "garage workshop" usable for 9 months of the year.
As to the noise issue.
If you won't be using powered machinery at unreasonable times -- e.g. you have a day job -- perhaps the potential noise attenuation need is mostly in you head?
You intend to be operating powered machinery.
You will need decent dust collection preferable mounted in a "sound"proof" enclosure vented back inside your workspace.
Tassie = coldish = expensive to exhaust heated air to the outside -- need I go on?
Also contact Albert -- he lives in Auckland. As far as I know, he still works his 40 hr a week day job. However, Albert has kitted out his two garage as a full industrial shop with 3 phase power. I'm not sure if Albert's power feed is 3 x 65 Amp, or 3 x 105 Amp.Last edited by ian; 11th May 2021 at 01:49 AM. Reason: middle of the night where you are, so added paragraphs about dust collection and contacting Albert in Aucklandand
regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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11th May 2021, 12:44 PM #13GOLD MEMBER
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Riverbuilder's peg board works well, so do egg cartons (the large commercial trays) on plywood. You can fix the frames to the floor by drilling through the bottom plates, prior to standing the frames, with a 25mm speed bore and squirt a bit of construction adhesive down the hole once the frames are in position. Easy to release with an old chisel and lump hammer when the time comes for removal.
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