Thread: Who is the best contemporary saw maker?????

Welcome to the forum, Marv.

Barging in's OK just don't step on too many toes

I think Marv has summed it up pretty well. You could equally ask "Who is making the best the best hand plane?". There is no simple answer to either question.

Before Skilsaws & Drop saws, so many saws for ostensibly the same purpose came in an almost endless variety of sizes and tooth pitches, so I think there has always been a very wide set of preferences in saws (& no doubt some healthy debate on which attributes were more important!!).

The law of diminishing returns applies to just about everything in this world, and saws are no exception. You can buy a very good saw like the Veritas models, that come sharp, cut straight, & are reasonably comfortable to hold, for a reasonable sum. Or, you can pay three times the price for a saw which might be 'better' in some respects, but almost certainly not 3 times better in any of these qualities. Factory saws are made to suit the 'average' person, and so there are compromises. Having a saw custom-made to your specs means you can reduce compromises, but unless you are someone like Claw Hama who uses saws all day every day, it's hard to know what tweaks to ask for that will make a long-term difference for you. My advice to anyone starting out in the handsaw world is to get their hands on as wide a variety of saws as possible and use them, to discover what suits them best. Unfortunately, it's not easy to get your hands on a lot of decent saws in one place, in order to make comparisons. In any case, your tastes will probably change over time, so it's probably not a good idea to splurge too much early-on.

There have been several discussions on the qualities that matter in backsaws on the "Hand Tools- unpowered" section of the Forum. The general consensus is that a "good" saw is one that has a handle that fits your hand for the position in which you commonly use it , has a blade length that suits your natural stroke, & a tooth pitch & profile that suits the task you are using it for. That's why some of us find it necessary to own more than one saw.

Sharpening is always going to be an issue with any saw, good, bad or indifferent. If you are going to be a serious handsaw user & get the best out of them, you need to learn to at least touch them up between major re-sharpens. Any saw that is sharp & cuts straight can do very good work in the right hands. Japanese saws are good examples - they are capable of the most intricate work, and some folk swear by them, but in my hands they just don't cut it, so to speak......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by MarvW

Most saw makers of today have more than one person doing the filing, usually hand filing. Filing small teeth in a backsaw is tedious and tiring and requires a certain skill level to do it right and consistent. This is going to vary from saw maker to saw maker and even from day to day with each maker. You can conceivably buy three of the same model saw from the same saw maker and get three saws that cut differently.

I guess that is another point when is it a one man boutique saw maker (or two man as in two Lawyers) and which are small factory vs large production and therefore who provides more consistency? Or are they both equally variable? They still should be of a higher standard and within tighter tolerances than a generic saw.



What about quality of materials, fit & finish, customer service?
The ability to translate/interpret all those questions and get the saw right?

Originally Posted by IanW

The law of diminishing returns applies to just about everything in this world, and saws are no exception. You can buy a very good saw like the Veritas models, that come sharp, cut straight, & are reasonably comfortable to hold, for a reasonable sum. Or, you can pay three times the price for a saw which might be 'better' in some respects, but almost certainly not 3 times better in any of these qualities. Factory saws are made to suit the 'average' person, and so there are compromises. Having a saw custom-made to your specs means you can reduce compromises, but unless you are someone like Claw Hama who uses saws all day every day, it's hard to know what tweaks to ask for that will make a long-term difference for you.

Have you got any opinions as to where that point is?? What is the peak?

My advice to anyone starting out in the handsaw world is to get their hands on as wide a variety of saws as possible and use them, to discover what suits them best. Unfortunately, it's not easy to get your hands on a lot of decent saws in one place, in order to make comparisons. In any case, your tastes will probably change over time, so it's probably not a good idea to splurge too much early-on.

This is a disadvantage here in Australia as overseas have larger tool days which get a wide representation of saw makers with tools for testing. here we get only LN representation. (This is based on the two I have been to. If someone knows a better place/event in Melb).

Originally Posted by IanW

My advice to anyone starting out in the handsaw world is to get their hands on as wide a variety of saws as possible and use them, to discover what suits them best.

Amen to that.

A lot must depend on your projected usage both in degree and application ... and of course that will vary in response to the experience you have with your first attempts and purchases.

Sometimes in magazines or videos I see people taking several steps to setup for a particular cut with a tablesaw or router and I think "you could do that by hand in a few minutes" ... it looks like I'm getting old-man syndrome. (No offense to the actual old-men)

I think you need some basis for comparison ... either a 'gold standard' ... maybe a saw of a friend or at a demo day or show ... or even a 'copper' or 'aluminium' standard by getting a hardware store hard-point saw. I got some Irwins very cheap that are a very sophisticated saw - at least as far as the tooth geometry which is kinda japanese-style but cutting on the push stroke. They were probably 70%-80% at least of the best handsaw I have (crosscut) since then.

I also think there are two relevant aspects ... the cutting/function and the feel/usage. Once you've put up with an ugly plastic handle for a while, you'll be better placed to judge a handle better suited to actual use by humans. And some will be perfectly happy with the plastic one.

Regarding the function ... how obsessed are you? Some people obviously get along with only one or a few modern saws and don't want for anything else. Some people will get one or two premium modern saws and be entirely happy with that. Personally I love the vintage saws - partly for the history embedded in them - but also because I can own A LOT of them - and they can still be used.

I'm speaking about handsaws - but it would apply somewhat the same for the smaller sizes - if you want to do a lot with handsaws then you will appreciate a good range of options. A 5pt or 6pt saw can be disappointly slow to (rip)cut large or hard stock when you have faster options. eg Johnredl has a 2pt ripsaw ... Claw has a 2pt xcut. A 12pt rip or xcut handsaw can leave a very smooth cut.

So the question is how to know what you will like, before you know what you will like?

Personally I like to play around with inexpensive stuff, and later pay more when I know more. Other people would still do well I'm sure getting top notch stuff and selling it on still at a good price if they decide on something else.
Just for me, that isn't an option because NOTHING LEAVES HERE. NOTHING!!
(Now - that's not true. We talked about this.)
[Humph - you talked. I only listened.]
(About time, I'd say.)
[Don't start on that again.]

I'm sorry, I have to sign off now.
Paul

[QUOTE=DSEL74;1667801]Have you got any opinions as to where that point is?? What is the peak? QUOTE]

Of course I have an opinion, but it is only relevant to my own situation. The more you learn about anything, the more you appreciate small differences, so as you go along on this journey, you become more aware of the 'finer points'. This will constantly re-set your sensitivity to what goes into a truly excellent tool (for you!) vs an also-ran.

Paul's suggestion to play with older saws is good advice, I reckon. You can fool around with an old clunker and see what happens when you try to sharpen it, & experiment with set & rake and fleam and all those things that matter to how a saw cuts. If you stuff up a $10 saw, it's not going to matter much, & you can just keep trying til you get things under some sort of control. The inescapable fact is, you will never get much experience just discussing & thinking about saws - ya gotta use 'em.

Buying one really 'good' tool as a "gold standard", is often recommended, and it has its merits - if you decide in future that you like something else better, you should be able to unload it for a reasonable proportion of your outlay. But I was never in the position to do that, so I took the longer, but more fun course, perhaps, of working my way through old tools, and eventually making my own. Now that really steepens the learning curve!

Cheers,