Thread: Converting troublesome Wooden drawer runners to Metal runners

Originally Posted by DaleBlack

My question to the cabinet makers or others here is whether my proposed fix will solve my 2 issues?

Thankyou

It should fix it.

Should fix it but you will probably have to reduce the width of the drawer to give space for the runners.

The metal runners will definitely be an improvement,....but (there is always a but.) If you have so much movement allowing the existing drawer to drop out the new runners may do that too.
The drawer will need 25mm clearance in its opening -12.5mm X 2 for the runners. If the flexing of the existing carcase is such that the new runners start to fail you would nedd to fit a "stretcher" under the drawer to maintain the proper sized opening. By that I mean fitting say a piece of Radiata 65mm X19mm on its flat under the drawer and secured with screws though the existing sides of the carcase

Hi Dale,

The images are a bit short on detail. As a previous forumite has correctly assessed the situation you will not have the necessary 25mm side clearance to fit the type of drawer runner you suggest. Also with that type of runner it is very difficult to insert the drawer if you don't have a fair measure of vertical clearance in the drawer slot to allow of getting the second wheel engaged in the second runner when fitting the drawer. Believe me I've spent hours wrestling with these slides and drawers over the years trying to upgrade or repair kitchen defects.They are yesterday technology in my view.

I think I'd stiffen up the whole arrangement to start with by screwing and gluing a sheet of 6mm MDF or 6mm ply as a new false base to the whole show. (You will have to first screw and glue in a few cleats to fasten the sheet material to.). That way you will hopefully remove the flex that is causing the sticking and stiffness problem.

Then I'd be looking at using a pair of under the drawer slides from Hafele, Blum Or Hettich (all on the www thing) because its a real bugger to reduce the width of a drawer if you arent set up for this sort of work. You will be able to get these slides to suit the actual depth of the drawer or very close as they come in a big range of lengths, also a fair range of load capacities and I'd probably be going for better than 30kg.I think you can also get them full extension so you can use the whole drawer but be careful of tipping forces in this event.

If you go for these under mount slides make sure you have enough cover behind the drawer front to hide them or it will look a bit ordinary.

IME It's not easy to make a cot that has free running slides for either a drawer or indeed the front lowering panel due to the very nature of the non rigid construction involved.....it gets to be a much better proposition if there is a full cover base that is firmly fixed.

Good Luck Old Pete

Originally Posted by DaleBlack

Hi

I have some wooden drawer runners on a cot, not only are they stiff and are not smooth in operation but it falls out quite easily. It falls out well before full extension, partly because the cot is a cheap pine unit that even though brand new and fixed by the bed rail midway up, flexes at the bottom and obviously flexes outwards after a while allowing the drawer to drop out. I have used a tri square on the drawer and the cot in all different areas and it appears to be straight.

See some pictures to help.

existing wooden runners (Small).JPGgroove for wooden runners in drawer (Small).JPGWooden Runner 2 (Small).JPG

So i have 2 problems

1 - the drawer falls out easily (this is the major problem)
2 - its sliding is not smooth at all.

I was thinking of converting to metal runners because they are obviously smoother but I thought (see images) that due to their design they basically hold themselves in place within the rails, limiting or maybe eliminating the chance of the drawer running off its rails? ie. it eliminates that bottom flex I currently have by sort of pulling in the bottom part of the end boards.

A product that should do the job is this (note the second image is from another piece of furniture I have that uses metal runners - you can see it sort of holds itself in)

Harn Metal Runners.jpgMetal Runners (Small).JPG

HARN Runner , products new home , HARN DRAWER RUNNER 650mm BOTTOM MOUNT WHITE COATED 30kg RATED

HARN SINGLE EXTENSION DRAWER RUNNER 650mm
BOTTOM MOUNT
WHITE COATED
30kg RATED. Made from 1.4mm Steel
Taped in Sets
Overall space for the runners is 25mm per drawer. (12.5mm per side)

The size of my current wooden runners is approx 12-13mm so they should fit. My question to the cabinet makers or others here is whether my proposed fix will solve my 2 issues?

Thankyou

If the draw is sticking it may be binding because it is not been moved square to the sides.

Have you tried putting a lubricant on the runners, for example soap?

If the draw is very wide a stretcher between the cot sides may help to prevent the draw dropping off the runners, also you might increase the length of the runners.

Only a couple of suggestions and I hope you solve your problem.

Originally Posted by chambezio

The metal runners will definitely be an improvement,....but (there is always a but.) If you have so much movement allowing the existing drawer to drop out the new runners may do that too.
The drawer will need 25mm clearance in its opening -12.5mm X 2 for the runners. If the flexing of the existing carcase is such that the new runners start to fail you would nedd to fit a "stretcher" under the drawer to maintain the proper sized opening. By that I mean fitting say a piece of Radiata 65mm X19mm on its flat under the drawer and secured with screws though the existing sides of the carcase

Originally Posted by old pete

Hi Dale,

The images are a bit short on detail. As a previous forumite has correctly assessed the situation you will not have the necessary 25mm side clearance to fit the type of drawer runner you suggest. Also with that type of runner it is very difficult to insert the drawer if you don't have a fair measure of vertical clearance in the drawer slot to allow of getting the second wheel engaged in the second runner when fitting the drawer. Believe me I've spent hours wrestling with these slides and drawers over the years trying to upgrade or repair kitchen defects.They are yesterday technology in my view.

I think I'd stiffen up the whole arrangement to start with by screwing and gluing a sheet of 6mm MDF or 6mm ply as a new false base to the whole show. (You will have to first screw and glue in a few cleats to fasten the sheet material to.). That way you will hopefully remove the flex that is causing the sticking and stiffness problem.

Then I'd be looking at using a pair of under the drawer slides from Hafele, Blum Or Hettich (all on the www thing) because its a real bugger to reduce the width of a drawer if you arent set up for this sort of work. You will be able to get these slides to suit the actual depth of the drawer or very close as they come in a big range of lengths, also a fair range of load capacities and I'd probably be going for better than 30kg.I think you can also get them full extension so you can use the whole drawer but be careful of tipping forces in this event.

If you go for these under mount slides make sure you have enough cover behind the drawer front to hide them or it will look a bit ordinary.

IME It's not easy to make a cot that has free running slides for either a drawer or indeed the front lowering panel due to the very nature of the non rigid construction involved.....it gets to be a much better proposition if there is a full cover base that is firmly fixed.

Good Luck Old Pete

Originally Posted by Handyjack

If the draw is sticking it may be binding because it is not been moved square to the sides.

Have you tried putting a lubricant on the runners, for example soap?

If the draw is very wide a stretcher between the cot sides may help to prevent the draw dropping off the runners, also you might increase the length of the runners.

Only a couple of suggestions and I hope you solve your problem.

Hi all

I was pondering the idea of the 'stretcher' myself though didnt realise the word is stretcher for it. I was ready to set off to bunnings tonight to buy some pine and then I realised that this cot like most comes with toddler rails. These are only for when you take away the adjustable side rail converting it into a bed. The todler rail is just a piece of wood to stop the toddler rolling out of the converted 'rail less' bed. If you look at one of the pictures you can see a pair of holes from factory just above the wooden rail. These holes are actually for when you lower the bed part down as the child gets older. Currently we have it on the higher setting so the wife doesnt have to stoop so far down with a newborn.

My toddler rails have factory metal threads in each end and of course are the same length as the bed slat rails, so I fitted it there instead and theres my 'stretcher' ( I assume thats what you all meant. Anyway, now the flex is much less and numerous in and out testing of the rail has not had one falling off its rails.

So I think that will do. The annoying thing is with this cot, its brand new and these toddler rails are not even meant to be on it yet so its sort of like I have to finish off the manufacturing stage for them, the cheap pine flexes so much. You get that for buying online made in China cots from a Australian store. Interestingly I have put together a second hand cot, a more solid Bacino for the first child and it is also wooden rails - zero problems. It did not need bracing and it was 5 years old.. I looked at selling my trouble cot above and buying say a Boori which retail up near 1000, however they are also just pine it seems. They call it "Araucaria Queensland sustainable plantation timber" but when I looked it up, its just pine.

Some other points

I had used the soap and that worked alot for smoothness.

If the draw is sticking it may be binding because it is not been moved square to the sides

. - I could have done it wrong, but i do have a trisquare and it fitted fine in every corner of my drawer. There were no gaps, so I assume my drawer was square.

"Also with that type of runner it is very difficult to insert the drawer if you don't have a fair measure of vertical clearance in the drawer slot to allow of getting the second wheel engaged in the second runner when fitting the drawer"

- I had not thought of this, when I looked again with this in mind, I realise that the bottom of the rail, you can see in the pic, is actually quite close when the drawer is fitted ( I didnt attach any pics with the drawer fitted) - so close I am unsure even if the rails did fit I would be able to tip it on a angle enough that the second wheel would engage.

Also were you recomending this style?

undermount-drawer-slide-main-id-20010.jpg


So it looks like a solved problem for now, thanks for the replies.

Good Morning Dale

Two years ago, as practice for a planned kitchen rebuild, I built an 18-drawer unit for my shed and tried out as many types of runners as possible. My conclusions were:

** Blum and Hettich are way better than any other brands.

** The powder coated ones sold by "BigChains" are grossly overpriced.

** The silver (non-soft-close) ball bearing runners sold by both Blum and Hettich agents are very good value for money. Made in China; about $15 - $20 per pair depending on quantity bought.

** Full extension runners are much better than single extension.

I posted a much more detailed post about a year ago. Try searching.

Fair Winds

Graeme