Thread: Customer needing opinion of a professional

Hi Jenni and welcome to the forums!

A sad note for you to join on but, that's life.

I am not a professional but I know you have been taken for a proverbial row of S&*%^houses. It is not common to see all the nicks you speak of. The panels of timber should have been cut on a panel saw that had a scribing blade. This prevents chipping.

Secondly, I would say someone couldn't read a tape measure or a plan. I tis totally absurd to have your bad experience in either of these cases.

You might try seeking recompense from the company but don't hold your breath. Consumer protection in Latin America is not a big cause.

Good luck if you do complain!

that sort of stuff happens here too, high volume kitchen makers , the original plans not accurate, panels not cut to plans , and the installer is left to sort out the mess , or maybe the installer was having a bad day, and screwed up, and you get iron on edges instead of heat bonded machine applied edges, all to common unforuneately, possibly the original plans did not take into account out of sqaure or plum corners and walls ,poor quality hinges also a problem , best are blum and hemmich or similar name , very disappointing for the customer , Ross

Originally Posted by JenniWinni

They built cabinets using MDF covered with formica, or something like it, and it looks good. (The brand is Koralite, I believe.)

Koralite is similar to Formica and is widely used in South America. You are correct that it is a laminate. As such, it must be processed in certain ways to get satisfactory results.


I have two questions to keep this short: 1) Is it normal in this case to see lots of nicks in the formica inside the drawers and cabinets?

The short answer is no. If the nicks are along the edges (which I expect they are) it indicates that the material was sawn using the wrong type of saw and/or the wrong type of saw blade. A cabinet maker should not have this problem.


2) Is it normal when working on doors and drawers for kitchen cabinets to install them, take them down, and re-cut them, sometimes more than once. (I ask because everything has had to be taken back to the workshop to be "adjusted" at least once and still the cabinets aren´t lined up exactly and the spacing between the doors and drawers isn´t equal.)

From your post, I assume the cabinets are being custom built and are not stock cabinets. If so, the maker should have fitted the drawers and doors at his shop before ever bringing the cabinets to your home. Then, he would remove them and re-install them on site, but they would already have been fitted properly.

When planned correctly, the only alterations needed during installation might be to scribe them to fit a wall that is out of plumb, or to add a small piece to cover a gap next to a wall.

Based on the information you provided, it sounds as though your vendor is not very professional and perhaps not even very experienced. Or maybe they gave your job to an apprentice?

I don't know what your recourse is, but I would not pay for a custom kitchen with the problems you outlined. I would want them to do it over without the chips and nicks and with the doors and drawers spaced correctly.

Hi, Artme.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Actually, the chips are on the edges of the Koralite, not on the MDF. I agree about the tape measure and plans...very frustrating. We'll have to see how this plays out. I just wished they would have done it right from the beginning.
Take care,
Jenni

Hello, Honorary Bloke.
Thanks for taking the time to reply to my message. You are living in my land, so I guess we have something in common as we are both foreigners where we live. You give me the impression that you have a lot of experience and/or know a lot about this type of thing. I really appreciate your insight. I have responded to your messages below in green, and I added a new comment in blue.


Originally Posted by JenniWinni
They built cabinets using MDF covered with formica, or something like it, and it looks good. (The brand is Koralite, I believe.)

Koralite is similar to Formica and is widely used in South America. You are correct that it is a laminate. As such, it must be processed in certain ways to get satisfactory results.


I have two questions to keep this short: 1) Is it normal in this case to see lots of nicks in the formica inside the drawers and cabinets?

The short answer is no. If the nicks are along the edges (which I expect they are) it indicates that the material was sawn using the wrong type of saw and/or the wrong type of saw blade. A cabinet maker should not have this problem.

You are correct, the nicks are on the edges of the Koralite, mostly on the inside. What we have are cabinets with a nice, high-quality laminate on the outside, but the brand is not Koralite. It seems to be thick and strong, but I'm not sure what the brand is. I do know that it was about twice the cost of Koralite. The inside of the drawers and cabinets are covered with a smooth, white Koralite. And that is where most of the problems lie. It does appear that the nicks happened during the cutting process. I have seen the carpenter do some work here. He glues a piece of the laminate on the MDF that is larger than the MDF on all sides, and then he trims it to fit the MDF. He uses a small hand saw that is not electric. It raises the hair on the back of my neck when he does it, because it just seems to be too difficult, as if it's putting too much strain on the laminate. When I watch him, I'm afraid he's going to damage it, because the cutting process is so rough. As far as the laminate on the outside of the cabinets goes, there aren't so many nicks, but there are some places that just look bad. It's hard to describe, but they don't look like they were cut well. From what you said, sounds like he's not using the proper tools. What is the name of the proper tool to cut the laminate in this case? You mentioned a special saw or a blade. Is there a specific tool that should be used for this? Maybe we could suggest it when he fixes these mistakes (at least I'm hoping that they will fix them.)


2) Is it normal when working on doors and drawers for kitchen cabinets to install them, take them down, and re-cut them, sometimes more than once. (I ask because everything has had to be taken back to the workshop to be "adjusted" at least once and still the cabinets aren´t lined up exactly and the spacing between the doors and drawers isn´t equal.)

From your post, I assume the cabinets are being custom built and are not stock cabinets. If so, the maker should have fitted the drawers and doors at his shop before ever bringing the cabinets to your home. Then, he would remove them and re-install them on site, but they would already have been fitted properly.

When planned correctly, the only alterations needed during installation might be to scribe them to fit a wall that is out of plumb, or to add a small piece to cover a gap next to a wall.

Based on the information you provided, it sounds as though your vendor is not very professional and perhaps not even very experienced. Or maybe they gave your job to an apprentice?

Yes, the cabinets are being custom-built. I've been wondering the same thing about if they gave the job to an apprentice or someone very inexperienced. He's having such a difficult time getting this job done. He's been working on it for months, and it's still not done. He has removed and re-installed the upper cabinet doors so many times, and each time he leaves, we notice that he has corrected one problem and created another. The upper cabinet doors open from the bottom up and have an arm with a spring installed so that you open them a little and then they automatically open competely, and now all the doors hit each other if we open them at the same time. They are still not aligned, and the spacing is still not correct. There are a few double-doors that open from the sides in the middle (more traditional style), and in these cases, the doors aren't even the same width. And it's noticeable! These are two doors on one cabinet, and logically, the doors would be the same size, but they're not. Unfortunately, I don't believe the trade is organized enough in this country to have such labels as "apprentice". I don't believe there is any organized body giving credentials to carpenters, if you know what I mean. I am uninformed in this area, so I may be wrong. I haven't looked into it, but I probably should. We told the project managers that we prefer that the carpenter does not come alone to do any further work. He needs some supervision! We'd actually prefer that they just bring in a better carpenter to fix the mess this guy has created. He's destroying the materials with his bad workmanship, however they are not complying with our request. The job drags on and on, and it's still not meeting our expectations.

Another thing we've noticed that just doesn't seem right is related to the handles. They're using imported aluminum handles that come in long strips and they cut them to fit the drawers and cabinet doors. They look good as they run along the entire edge of the drawers and doors and create nice, flattering lines, making the kitchen look big. However, they appear to be raw, meaning they are so sharp on the edges that we are nervous about cutting ourselves on them. It appears that they have tried to smooth them down a bit, but it didn't seem to do much at all. Have you seen these types of handles? If so, do you know what tool they could use to smooth them over so they won't be so sharp?

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to share what you know. I really appreciate it.

Regards,

Jenni

Thanks, Woodsurfer, for your reply. These people are definitely not high-volume kitchen-makers. They are not capable of that. It could be a little of each of the things you mention. Thanks for your input. Are you a surfer? I used to work at Surfing Magazine years ago.
Regards,
Jenni