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2nd July 2005, 07:48 PM #1
Darkside questions - advise required
G'day all, I'm finally off night duty and slightly more awake!
So off I went to the shed to try cutting some dovetails for the second time ever...
Apart from the usual issues with marking, sawing, etc I am having big issues with getting nice and clean sockets.
It seems that a couple of skew chisels would be ideal for cleaning the bottom of the sockets. I have made some in the past for other reasons but seem to have misplaced them.
What is the consensus for recommended width of chisel for this purpose and what angle should the skew be ground at?
PS I have done a search and have read Dereks excellent post on dovetail aidsYou can never have enough planes, that is why Mr Stanley invented the 1/2s
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2nd July 2005, 07:56 PM #2
I thought a routermaniac would be using a Gifkins............
If at first you don't succeed, give something else a go. Life is far too short to waste time trying.
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2nd July 2005, 08:07 PM #3
I agree why don't you just get a Gifkins? After that, all will be OK...
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2nd July 2005, 08:21 PM #4
damn it Gumby dont need much encouragement to give up :confused:
A Gifkins would be good for later, now I would like to teach myself how to do this the old fashioned wayYou can never have enough planes, that is why Mr Stanley invented the 1/2s
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2nd July 2005, 08:28 PM #5
Temptation is good.......... I sold my soul to the electron gods long ago
If at first you don't succeed, give something else a go. Life is far too short to waste time trying.
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2nd July 2005, 08:34 PM #6GOLD MEMBER
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If you want to do dovetails or many other joints try looking at http://www.anglemag.com/about.html this can assist in cutting out your dovetails and pins. Other wise look at http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=15320 and check out Michaels new toy. I'm not sure why you are using a "Skew Chisel" as these are used for turning according to the Timbecon website. A good straight chisel would do just fine for cleaning out your pins and dovetails. I think buying a Gifkins or a Stots Jig would be good for you, the Stots apparently has variable spacings. I have a Gifkins Jig and plan on making a new template by copying the template leaving out alternate pins/dovetails. This is my plan over the next few weeks.
From one dovetailer to another - Happy Dovetailing,
Woody
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2nd July 2005, 08:35 PM #7Originally Posted by routermaniac
The angle would be the same as you would use for the tails, traditionally 1:6 (softwood) or 1:8 (hardwood). I believe left- and right-handed versions are required.
I also understand that a marking knife, or something similar, could be used to get right into the sockets of half-blind dovetails (L & R handed versions usually not needed).Those are my principles, and if you don't like them . . . well, I have others.
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2nd July 2005, 08:36 PM #8GOLD MEMBER
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Oops, in case you don't know here is Rogers website http://www.gifkins.com.au/
Woody
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2nd July 2005, 10:32 PM #9GOLD MEMBER
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The angle on my Hirsch skew chisels are 60 degrees. The width is 12mm. I'm pretty happy with both angle and width.
Arron
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2nd July 2005, 11:51 PM #10
Thanks for the responses.
Arron, 12mm and 60 degrees sounds about right, I must admit that I thought about using the angle for 6:1 but that would be one funny looking chisel and also extremely difficult to use.
PS woodworker, thank you for your suggestions, the skew I was referring to is different from the turning skew in that it is bevelled on one side. Because of the skew it allows one to get into those tight spots when doing half blind dovetails by hand.
As far as I am aware (and Derek please correct me here if I am wrong) using skew chisels to clean up dovetails has been around for a long time.You can never have enough planes, that is why Mr Stanley invented the 1/2s
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3rd July 2005, 02:44 AM #11
Routermaniac
In my opinion (and Rob - Wood Borer - can comment), the singlemost important element in hand cutting dovetails is to cut the tails first (for reasons that will follow) and to cut them straight. If the tails are straight, then using them as a template for and cutting the pins is pretty straight forward.
Why cut the tails first? Because ... here's my tip:
1) Mark all the boards with the baselines using your cutting gauge.
2) Now gang these together in your vise, and mark out the tails you plan to cut across the ganged stack. The more boards, the better.
3) It is easier to cut accurately by cutting these all of these at once, than to cut one at a time. (And that is why you cut the tails first).
4) Even if you only have a single board to cut, add a few to this to increase the width of the cut. You can reduce the number of boards as you gain confidence in cutting straight.
An added benefit is that this speeds up the cutting if you have several drawers to make.
See the pictures below.
With regard chisels, I do find skewed chisels very handy to clean up corners (after the waste has been pared out). I bought a set of 1/2" Crown skew chisels a few years ago (but I would now make my own). I also have a copy of Rob Cosman's skew chisel that I made (picture below) that is very helpful for cleaning up half blind dovetails.
Regards from Perth
Derek
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3rd July 2005, 11:17 PM #12
Derek is 100% Right on this I do exactly as he says but for the fact I dont own any small skew chisels I use a marking knife to get to the socket corners.
RossRoss"All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.
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3rd July 2005, 11:42 PM #13
I've modified a couple of chisels to help when doing dovetails. First, I've ground a 12mm chisel down to about half its original thickness, to get into the thin sockets for the pins. I also made a mini-chisel about 1mm wide from an old triangular file. It has to be tempered in an oven before grinding search for tempering for more details.
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4th July 2005, 08:55 AM #14
You can make skews for cleaning corners out of any old chisels, bevelled or otherwise; no bevel is needed for the points to get where you want them to reach. Straight chisels are probably easier to grind.
Of the two sets I've got, the 1/4" pair get by far the most use for regular cabinet work, while the Lee Valley 1/2" pair are handy for thumping big d'tails on bench timbers, etc.
The angles aren't all that critical, about 60* is probably preferrable to 45*, as the point gets a bit long and fragile if you put too much angle on it.
Derek's 'fishtail' regrind is a good idea, the one tool can reach either corner - why didn't I think of that before! :confused: .
I suppose the skews have a whole lot of uses apart from cleaning d'tail sockets.
When doing blind d'tails, I always get out both chisels for the job, but confess that I rarely care which one I pick up - you just flip it over to cut the opposite corner. There are only a few fibres in the corner that need snipping off, after all - the rest are already taken care of with the regular bevels you are using for the main paring activity.
Keep at it Routermaniac - it takes a little while to become slick at cutting dovetails, but once it clicks, you'll be surprised how easy it is to make water-tight joins repeatedly. I reckon cutting really good M&T joints is much harder - certainly, you can disguise a sloppy fit easier, but you and the glue know when they aren't a good fit, and the glue eventually divulges the secret! :mad:
(The chisel on the right is a 1/4" bent for cleaning the bottoms and corners of mortises).
Cheers,IW
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4th July 2005, 06:55 PM #15
One of the best references I found was Tage Frid's book on woodwork. I discovered I was chiselling the waste from the wrong direction and once I changed that the joints improved out of sight. Got the book out of the local library and have borrowed it so often since I'm starting to get ewven stranger looks than usual
DaveDave . . .
I believe in Murphy's Law of Pre-requisites - Whatever I want to do, I have to do something else first.
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