Thread: Decent Woodwork Plans

I am not arguing that complex plans should be for free, but why pay for them when you can get them for free. Also these free plans are not pirated, they are put on the web by people who don't mind sharing there imagination. The main thing I do disagree with is selling techniques, this is just plain greedy in my opinion. Mr. Rocker do you have the free software on your PC called Adaware or Spybot. I dare say that you do, because without it your PC would be run down with hijackers and the like. The people who wrote that software believe that it should be for free, all they ask for is a donation and I hope you are a man of principles Mr. Rocker and made a substantial one. Anyway, well over 120 people have logged on to find out about the free plans and only a handfull seem to disagree with me. If you find the plans that I have suggested worth wile please leave a post and tell us what you think and which plan you decided to turn into reality.

Clint

Clint,

I don't think we disagree. I have no objection to free plans; indeed I have probably given out something like 100 free copies of plans and articles on jigs to members of this forum who have requested them. If people want to post free plans on the internet, that is fine by me; but my experience has been that the free ones are often hardly worth having, since you could easily produce the same sort of thing on the back of the proverbial envelope. I merely contend that is fair enough for people like myself, who have produced plans and instructions for making a complex project, to get a reasonable return for their labour. In fact I do not even begrudge Hal Taylor, who charges 10 times as much for his rocker plans as I do for mine; he is trying to make a living from building rockers, selling plans, and teaching students. I am not.

Rocker

Good reply Rocker. I tried to give you some rep but the board wouldn't let me.

And many thanks for the plans for the crosscut sled that you emailed me.

Craig

Like others, I have posted quite a few jigs and ideas on this board, and answer any questions about it, for the benefit of other members.

These are free plans and I do it to help, as I have been helped in the past by others. It is my decision to do so, however others might want to be paid for their ideas.

As such I fully agree with Rocker that he is entitled to charge for his rocker plans.


Peter.

I am taking the "publish and be damned (mis) quote"

As someone who works as a designer, I would like to offer the following from information I received from IP Australia, and a patent attourney: Copyright is asserted by a designer, regardless of its mention formally or informally on the product or in supporting documentation. IN Australia, the law is that evidence must be given BY A DEFENDANT, establishing beyond reasonable doubt that their design is NOT a copy of the litigant's. So .... if you design it, you own the design - forget patents...... no one can patent a table for example, as a patent refers only to an invention or innovation, which can be proven to be new. So to plans for woodworking projects...... The way I see this is: if someone invests time and energy into creating plans, then wishes to give them away - great! If they wish to sell them - great too..... and if this is their way of making a living, then where's the issue? I feel those who get bent outa shape because they can't get another's work for free, should immediately get over to my place as we have a bunch of stuff that urgently needs doing ....... for free

Having said that I need to point out that Mr. Rocker is very well liked by members of this forum and no one who wants to build a quality rocker would mind paying David for all his blood sweat and tears. However, those Johnny come latelys who feel the need to call him Mr. Rocker, don't appreciate how he has added to our skills and accuracy and therefore should read more before opening their mouths to change feet. That privilege is reserved for seasoned veterans like Ozwinner, Stinky and me.
Also anyone who spells words in a socially accepted way, as I tend to propose as being the done thing, might be liable to copyright if some of the postings on this thread are to be believed.
The bottom line, dear readers, is live and let live. If you want to use someone's plans and they are for sale, then buy the things. If you can find something as good for free then good on you, but don't whinge about Mr. someone if he thinks his plans are worth something. If you build one of David's rockers and it is a heap of sticks and not worth the cost, then by all means sook and we all will listen.
Ok I'm off my soapbox.

I will probably regret this, but it was explained to me in this way ..... Beethoven's music is not copyright but you cannot publiclly broadcast it from any recording without licence to do so ..... not that his music isnt public domain, rather the recording is the copyright work on the publishers of it...... regarding Style: I feel it is fine to state something is mission, victorian etc. Finally, assertion of copyright doesnt make it so ..... but their work in rendering a plan is theirs....... someone said can-o-worms



I agree

Originally Posted by Hellacopter 1

Not meaning to offend.

I realise that you are a new member but I am not happy with your recent posts. Whilst you may not have meant to offend , you did.

This BB consists of many members both young and old, male and female (and if a recent poll is to be believed some aliens as well ) , mainly but not only from Australia who come together in a spirit of friendship to help each other in their woodworking endeavours.

Whilst not everyone agrees with each other, see discussions on hand tools v power tools and the journey or the end result, we all respect each other and treat each other with courtesy.

That is why it galled me so much to see you refer to Ozwinner as Mr. Ozwinner and Rocker as Mr. Rocker. Your posts were very critical of the planfinder and of Rocker’s integrity, questioning if he has paid for some shareware programs. :mad:

Both Ozwinner and Rocker have helped many members and their posts are always interesting to read, unlike your posts. They are respected members of this board, something you still have to earn.

I suggest that until you can claim similar contributions to this BB you curtail your sarcastic remarks and moderate your posts.


Peter.

dont hold back Peter tell him how you feel
my 2c worth I buy plans as needed but I do check the net first as some plans are posted for personal use ie making wooden clock mechanisms but if they are only available via pay for it then I do. I am sure if Peter invented a jig that he felt needed to be paid for no-one here would ask if there was a pirated version around nor should they.
Good manners dont end at the table :mad:
Pete

Originally Posted by Hellacopter 1

I just visited a site siggested by Mr Ozwinner called www.woodworkingplanfinder.com/ . When I arrived there I was not surprised to find that they wanted my credit card number if I wanted there poxy plans. I then noticed a link called free plans so I clicked it only to find two items that would have been so simple to make that you wouldn't of needed plans and anyway, you wouldn't have wasted your time on them. Then I clicked on a link called WW techniques and to my disbelief thay wanted to charge you for them to!! Technique is something that should be shared between all of us, so we can do a good job and get maximum satisfaction from doing what we love with mistakes occuring as little as possible, share and share alike I say. Then I realised that that this site was run by Wood Magazine, blokes from the States trying to make a buck from people that don't know where to get free plans. Now if that is what you want, go to Google and type free woodworking plans and on the first page of the search there is a link to a google site that has 21700 free WW plans, sure there is some crappola there to, but atleast it's free crappola and if you sort through them you can find some real gems.
The front page has the alphabet and you just click on the letter that you want to go to. eg. T for Table, Coffee. You'll get the hang of it. There is also an add beside the alphabet for a place in the states called Pops Unfinished Furniture and if you check that out you can get hunreds of ideas. There's no plans there, just hundreds of photos of some real classy household furniture that this place sells and all can be enlarged and printed.
Not meaning to offend you Mr Ozwinner I know that you were just trying to share something with us all that you thought was worthwhile I just hate people charging for something that should be free, so what are you waiting for, go check it out!

Clint

Who are you to say what should be free!
Sombody made an effort to produce the drawings and they are entitled to something for their time .
Sure they can share with their friends but are you one of those ?
I am sick of people looking for a free ride draw your own plans and stop whining!

First I will ignore all the name calling as below the dignity of so-called senior members

I have some inkling of how Hellcopter1 felt - it is rather like being a kid, standing in line for an ice-cream, having it in your hand & then having some clod knock the whole thing into the sand

There are some good sites with 'free' plans, but they are getting fewer, and there are sites that try to suck you in for some hard-earnt $$$. Some of the better magazine publisher's sites have a mix of free and pay plans, with some really good general skill/knowledge articles too.

I seem to remember someone round here getting burnt for a CD of 'free plans' that turned out to just be a list of URL's to plans.

OK.

How about everyone posts some of their favourite 'free' plans sites to the links area? Just the link with a short description such as 'all free' 'some free, some pay' 'good sorting' etc.? I'll have a go at it & see how it goes.

Wey hey,
I think there are two different concepts being discussed here. Free things that are meant to be free and free things that arent meant to be free. The line seems to have gotten slightly blurred in there I think.
Anyway if its free great, I will always look for something free, but Pirating is different.
In my limited expirence I've only followed one plan and even then it had minor "improvements". Most things Ive done have come from a vague concept or much modified plan. How much modfication makes it yours?
Maybe now that Im starting to make actual furniture that needs to take into account the properties of the timber I might have to look for real plans.

Whilst not wishing to stir the embers of a fire that may already be burnt out, I do think that the senior members of this board are being a bit harsh on Hellacopter 1.

I do not believe that he meant any disrespect by refering to Al and David by their aliases with a 'Mr' in front. In fact the reverse would seem to me to be the case. How about we put it down to a case of a newbie not knowing the correct protocol as established here over the last few years?

I also would much rather get the plans for free if at all possible. This is not a case of being a tight , (although in certain circumstances I am, ) but rather of not wasting my hard earned money paying for things that are not needed to be paid for.

How many of us have taken Al up on his offer of 'Free smilies'? Just send him $10 and he will send you all the free smilies you can use.

Bob,
I think you are heading down the patent road. As for copyright it is a sticky issue. A lot of plans I have seen are not new and by the look of them have passed their use by date anyway. Others, including those you pay for, are usually half baked and the explanations or detail required is missing, a bit like the asembly instructions you get with machinery. If you subscribe to a wood working magazine and see the pictures and plans made available to the reader, are you confident they are copyright or patent protected? It is very hard to define what it is that is protected.
If you see a piece of furniture and you want to make on like it surley you are not stealing anything. It's an idea you take with you and most probably when you make it it will be different. It could be a legal nightmare, but the average weekend wood worker should not lose sleep over it.
ernknot