Thread: Dining table trouble

First off, get rid of the wife.
Your life will get better day by day.

Ok now to serious business.
The timber you used for the table top has shrunk.
Take off the edging, trim off a little bit from it, and re glue back in place.
Assuming the timber used for the top has finished drying.

Al

Hoddo, good try and welcome. unfortunately it looks like you haven't allowed for the natural movement of the timber. It will expand and contract depending on the climate and of course, the mitres don't go with it. Tight mitres like that will always come adrift because of that movement. There isn't anything you can do except attach the top in a manner which allows for this.

G'day Hoddo,

If the top is solid timber scrub the miters & go with breadboard ends as the timber movement (across the grain) will kill miters (as exhibited).

For a first project you have done very very well! As ozwinner said, the problem is timber shrinkage. Timber shrinks across its width and, if you imagine a 45deg mitre, or better still draw one, then you can see that as the timber shrinks across its width it opens up the miter. There are whole (especily American) magazines that seem to be dedicated to the 'science' of taking shrinkage into acount but the best way is to let the timber 'aclimatise' to you place by leaving it to dry for a few weeks before you make anything.
Don't give up, you have real skill,
Fletty

First and foremost, dont lose heart just because the first project went a bit pear-shaped. what you have done does show that you have a great deal of skill for one so inexperienced. from what i see of your work in the photos you would have no difficulty in working from a plan designed by someone who understands the movement of wood, etc. chalk that one up to experience, throw a tablecloth over it and have a crack at something a bit less ambitious for the next project. get a book out of the library and start with a coffee table or something. but dont give up

Hoddo,

I have to say I would be wary of trying to follow Ozwinner's advice; I am with Major in thinking that you should scrub the mitres altogether, since the table top is always going to be expanding and contracting across the width of the grain according to seasonal changes in humidity.

Specifically then, I suggest that you remove the banding from the sides of the top altogether. If you wish have breadboard ends, look up in a woodworking book the methods of attachment that will allow for the seasonal movement of the wood.

The concept that you need to grasp in making furniture is that wood is very stable along its length, but expands and contracts across its width; so you will run into trouble if you attach long grain to end grain, without making provision for seasonal movement.

Your table design would have worked well if the top had been made of veneered MDF with a solid wood edge banding, because MDF is very dimensionally stable.

Rocker

Yup... keep wife.. loose the mitres

A table top like that could move up to 5mm either way depending on the season :eek:
Worth looking at how the top is attached to the apron as that could pull apart if there is no expansion type joint.

DONT GIVE UP ! cos the table looks pretty good, except the mitre corner was doomed to fail. Either do breadboard ends or just leave them endgrain.

Cheers

Ian

Looks like all the repiles are right on and I have nothing to add. lot of good advice here, so let me just welcome you to the Forum

Loos great by the way

Hoddo,
Great first effort - I can't bear to think of mine!

The breadboard ends is the (!) proper way to go, but frankly I don't know why people hate endgrain so much. Another option I have seen used, since you have made it this way, is to leave a significant gap at the mitres say 5mm - round off the edges so it looks finished - call it a novel feature. The table I saw also had a groove ~ 2mm that followed the join between the edge pieces and the centre section.

Welcome and well done.
cheers

Hoddo

Don't feel bad, you're not alone.

I built a table on exactly the same principles, mitred joins on the banding. To make matters worse, I routed out a slot on the inside of the banding and inserted brass strip inlay.

I got the same result as you - mitres opening up - not one but all four, and the brass inlay lifted. I'm reading the replies with interest, as I've already broken the table down and am wondering how to fix. My table seats 12 so the problem is magnified.

I'd post a piccy, but I'm too embarrassed,

I echo the comments -- very nice, if ambitious, job for a first try. Whip the mitred banding off and either leave the end grain or go for the breadboard ends (see pic if you're wondering what that looks like). There are several ways to make proper floating breadboard ends... sliding dovetails or pinned mortise & tenons being most common.

The expansion and contraction you get with timber is mostly related to changes in moisture content through the season. For small tables like coffee tables you can get away with just gluing on the breadboard end (with biscuits, dowels or whatever), so long as you varnish both sides of the table top thoroughly -- sealing it from moisture loss or gain will make the wood much more stable to expansion and contraction.

Hoddo,

Don't worry mate, I made the same mistake. I didnt allwo for the expansion/contraction of the pine panels in a toybox I made. And this happened:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ghlight=toybox

I'd ditch the mitres (you've really got no choice here). Breadboard ends are teh technically correct option here but theres some downsides:

1) The construction is a bit complex and the t&G requires some hardcore accuracy.
2) You will be changing the dimensions of your table a bit.
3) You risk stuff the table up if you get the endgrain tongue wrong.

I'd just go for endgrain and make it a 1450x1450 table. A lot of people dont like edgrain becuase of the crap finish given by tablesaws, routers and sanders. Only a good low angle plane will give a nice smooth, presentable finish to that much end grain I reckon.

That's an excellent job first up, & more power to you for showing it with its problem. You aren't the first and you won't be the last to have this problem. I'd do as others have said and ditch the mitres. A sharp plane and some elbow grease & sanding will have the end grain looking great. Remember to plane in from the sides so you dont push splinters off the sides.

Hoddo
you table looks a lot better than many I have seen in the shops.

Blackwood is a good choice for furniture although you might get the odd chipout.

Breadboard ends can look good but the problem is they are never flush with the rest of the table. The boards on the table move more across their width than the ends do along their length.

I like the flush look so I would do without the breadboard ends as well the edging.

It looks like you have enough room from the legs to the edge of the top.
If it was my table, I would remove the edging and whatever evidence there is of how you joined it to the table.
Clean up the new edges and smooth them off the same way you did to the original edging.

Not a big job and not that hard to do.
The table will look as good as you and your wife wanted.
You obviously have the skill. You might as well have a good table to show it off.

I would fix it as soon as possible or it would annoy the hell out of me.