Thread: Dovetailing long boards

Originally Posted by javali

How do people mark the pins from the tails (or vice versa) when the boards are longer than the bench height? The only method I came up with is to clamp the boards to a square piece of timber - as in the photo - but aligning the boards is a bit tedious. Any better ideas?

Well, I suppose you could dig a hole and put the bottom of the board down in it...

I've seen pictures of set-ups that involved building a fancy set of steps to work from and just working up high in the air. If you're cutting them by hand, that's one thing. If using a jig, the only alternative would be impractical: rout horizontally. Let us know how long the board is that you are working on and how you ultimately proceed. Thanks!
Michael

When dovetailing carcasses of cabinets I use the end vise and a face vise (actually, that one is a dovetail vise). The face vise supports a board, which acts as a support for the board in the end vise.



The ends are joined with a mitre clamp.



Regards from Perth

Derek

I dovetailed some 1.5m carcasses using my Leigh D4 jig. I had to build boxes for both the jig and one for me to stand on, just to gain the clearance needed. If cut by hand, I can't see the same problem??

Jeff

Neat Derek and like your solution to Jeff.

Gives me some ideas but I have a Gifkins setup, Might be a tad awkward!

Good solution Derek, but why do you cut the tails first? Seems like it's then difficult to mark the pins from them when you use fine pins like that.
I always cut the pins first, then there's plenty of room to mark the tails.

Hi Javali, up to 1800 long & using a leigh jig I just clamp a plasterers stool with adjustable legs to the bench & clamp the jig to that. Lets me work up to eye height easily. To clear the front of the bench with the workpiece I put a board in each vise & clamp to it...that is more than enough offset. If hand cutting I use a long board in the vises, drop the job between it & the bench & clamp it all. Regards, Bill

Originally Posted by AlexS

Good solution Derek, but why do you cut the tails first? Seems like it's then difficult to mark the pins from them when you use fine pins like that.
I always cut the pins first, then there's plenty of room to mark the tails.

Both ways work

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks everyone.

The carcass measures about 1200x900, so cutting isn't much of a problem. I guess that once I get to the 1800 range I will have to start using some of the methods suggested here.

Now I need to upgrade my bench to be able to implement Derek's solution...

When I cut sliding dovetails for large bookshelves that eventually covered 50 linear feet of wall space (SWMBO is an academic) I had the same problem. The shelves were cut from celery top pine 35 x 250 mm and each was 1.5 metres long. Eventually I put two work benches side by side and about 50mm apart. Then I put a B&D Workmate on top stradling the two benches and clamped the shelf vertically in the Workmate so that the tail hung between the two benches. It meant I had to stand on the work benches with the router and jigs: But it worked.

Derek's solution is much more elegant.

Cheers

Graeme

Heavens no to the Rube Goldberg contraptions and arrangements to mark one board from the other. I've never seen one that didn't look precarious and usually ridiculous. You simply put them face-to-face, mark out both halves of the joint with a dovetail marker (Richard Kell or lookalikes) and saw. What you're doing is assuming it's a joint that cannot be marked from the first sawn workpiece -- like a Japanese twisted dovetail joint (nejiri arigata) in which both boards have to be marked and then sawn -- one cannot be marked from the other.

This fellow illustrates the concept and sells dovetail markers to go with. You don't need his markers, necessarily, though he has built into them an "offset" that makes the process a little easier. If you've successfully cut dovetails before, you'll have no problem marking them and cutting them with a gauge you already have. I have no commercial interest in the products:

How It Works - TailSpin Tools

I'm providing the link to illustrate the process only.

Fancy, complex, overly complicated waste of time and probably money is My first impression .

KISS Principal is the way .

Welcome to the forum too .

Hi Charles! Welcome to Oz ... great to have you here!

I saw that video a while back and must admit that I had a headache at the end - clearly I am spatially challenged, plus my encroaching senility makes it difficult to remember all the twists and turns. Interesting however.

I see that this is a very old thread, going some 14 years back. Substantially, I might dovetail in a similar manner. Just better work holding now.

A few years later I did have to dovetail a near 8' board, which made the side of the bench I was building ...




... sawing the lines from the opposite side ...




A lot easier to remove the waste ..



Transferring the tails to the pin board was also a stretch ...



Blue tape aided my spatial confusion (even then) ..



Regards from Perth

Derek

Funny how these old threads re-surface, sometimes with an interesting twist like this....

My first reaction was rather like Rob's - it seemed like a lot of fuss using these "Tailspin" markers and quite counterintuitive to the way I've been doing it for around 50 years. But on reflection, there is about the same amount of total effort involved as marking out any other way. I suggest that what made it look cumbersome in the video was the bloke butting the second gauge up to the first & changing his grip so he could mark the back of each pin or tail as he went along. We were taught to mark both back & front at school, but I gave up marking the back about 40 years ago, once I learnt to reliably saw square to a face. If you skip that step it would look a lot smoother.

We can argue forever about the best way to go about dovetails, but there is an incontestable benefit in transferring from a pre-cut set of pins or tails to its opposite board. It means any small errors in the first lot of cuts are automatically compensated for & (provided they aren't gross errors) will not affect the completed joint. Just pay full attention to the second lot of cuts & all will be well. Setting out on both boards simultaneously means you have to saw very, very carefully for both boards - Murphy's Law dictates that errors are always additive, never self-cancelling.

Funnily enough, we were taught to set out both boards simultaneously for dovetail joints in school woodwork, I didn't see the transfer method until I was an adult & received some tutoring from a cabinetmaker. Looking back, I think it was just to make us pay full attention & set out & saw accurately - as you can imagine with a bunch of 12 yr olds, that was a tall order & some rather strange joints were produced at times. Obviously, simultaneous setting out can work, but it increases the effort of concentration & chances of error when doing a large set of drawers. Cutting my chances of error by 50% is a good move, in my book...

Cheers,

Two of the tips that really worked for me are two I've learned here!

Tape and Rebates

The tape method was brilliant. Worked first time, even on tiny joints (attached). I use a kiridashi.

The second was to cut a rebate on the rear of the board and using this rebate to align, exactly as shown in Dereks post above Mine are small though, lucky to be 1 or 2mm .... not much need for more.


On a personal level, I've found titebond to be an excellent glue for these joints. It expands the fibres and hides many sins

edit - I also cheat a bit, as Im not very good, by making the depth of the sockets a mm or two deeper, then sheering them flush (with the sander!).
edit 2 - I find blind dovies so much easier than through tails. Through tails are HARD. I remember this always being the case, even from Year 8 to 10 woodworking classes (Jeez I love those classes).

tiny dovetails.jpg