Thread: Best dowelling drill bit

I'd definitely go Colt for brad points and forstner bits.

I've found CMT quality very hit and miss - I have a set of their brad point drills of which two were definitely not straight as purchased.

P&N are usually pretty reliable for drills, but I haven't personally used their brad points.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Steve, I don't want to be a party pooper but I've had some P&N drills (not brads) and they went blunt pretty quickly (in timber). I've had some other Chinese forstners and they were absolute rubbish (HSS apparently translates to Highly Suspicious Shight).

German HSS M2 steel is definitely the go.

I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Originally Posted by jimbur

P&N and I can't remember the other Australian one, I think they are the same company though.
Cheers,
Jim

Maybe Suttons. They're pretty good, old Oz coy, but still made in China tho. mine have lasted well and haven't had need to swharpen in 3+ years. Avail at green shed too.

Originally Posted by wun4us

Maybe Suttons. They're pretty good, old Oz coy, but still made in China tho. mine have lasted well and haven't had need to swharpen in 3+ years. Avail at green shed too.

P&N are Suttons, it seems. These were listed as 'P&N Sutton 10p Drill Bit Set Metric - Hex Drive Brad Point HV477603 150BS10MBP'

Edit: 'Jobber' used to be fairly good value for money, too, but I don't know if they even exist any more.

Originally Posted by Hermit

Jill, too late I guess, but there's also a 5-piece set of P&N here, includes a 10mm, $25 delivered: - P&N Sutton 5p Drill Bit Set Metric - Hex Drive Brad Point HV478973 150BS5MBP | eBay

that's the name I couldn't remember, Suttons. Thanks Steve,
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by wun4us

Maybe Suttons. They're pretty good, old Oz coy, but still made in China tho. mine have lasted well and haven't had need to swharpen in 3+ years. Avail at green shed too.

thanks, Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

that's the name I couldn't remember, Suttons. Thanks Steve,
Cheers,
Jim

No worries. When I posted, I almost added that you were right on top of it.

AFAIK the Suttons brand is still made in Oz (presumably from Oz steel), and the other two brands that they bought (P&N and Frost) are made in China, no doubt from Chinese steel. It's the quality of the steel that will be the biggest factor in durability. The 2 Chinese forstners (HSS) that I had were only used to drill a hole 2-3mm deep and they managed to burn even that. When I got my first Colt forstners (high alloy, not HSS) the difference was night and day. They are fast, clean, excellent chip ejection and no burning. I have used a Colt Brad Point 8mm to drill hundreds of holes in Spotted Gum and it will still drill a 70mm deep hole in about 5 seconds with three pulls on the press. It does now have some very slight signs of wear, but it doesn't seem to affect the performance.

Colt is another manufacturer that has two levels of Brad Points. The Five Star FCE range is HSS M2 and are virtually entirely made in Germany (there is one early part of the process that is done in the Czech Republic). They have a patented tip geometry which you can see in detail here. The metric range is 3mm to 11mm in 0.5mm increments, then 12,13,14,15,16mm. The Imperial range is 1/8 to 1/2 in 1/64 increments.

Their Twinland range of Brad Points is a different tip geometry (standard BP tip), tool steel, and are made in China (but to a spec, not a price, even though they are significantly cheaper). Many members have purchased the Twinland range and I've heard no complaints about the performance, although their were two 12mm that were bent (and replaced without any problems). The Twinland metric range does not have the 0.5mm increments, but they go up to 30mm diameter. The Imperial range is similar.

Scope of the Colt ranges:
Five Star Brad points: 50 part numbers inc. 4 sets
Five Star Brad Pen Drills: 29 part numbers inc. 1 set
Twinland Brad Points: 44 part numbers inc. 4 sets
Forstners: 75 part numbers inc. 6 sets

Of those 198 part numbers there are 8 available locally, 5 of which are sets.

Lots of interesting info.
A shame if Frost have gone downhill too - they used to be decent.

How hard are brad point drill bits to sharpen?
Jill mentioned this yesterday too.

As I've said previously I keep away from dowels, but for what little I did I used the Harron bits Haron Dowel Drills : CARBA-TEC


I haven't seen them mentioned in this thread - are they rubbish? (Maybe that's why my doweling wasn't all that successful)


Ian

Originally Posted by Hermit

How hard are brad point drill bits to sharpen?

Don't know yet Steve (another advantage of HSS M2), but that was why I started that thread that I linked to in my last post. Many seem to think it's straightforward, but I think anything smaller than 5-6mm will be very difficult/impossible. For that reason I have spares of the smaller sizes (plus the smaller they are the easier they snap, particularly with the more brittle HSS). In short, because the prices we were purchasing at were so good I stocked up - the smaller the size and the more common the use (for me) the greater the number of spares.

As an example of the prices:
8 pce Twinland from retailer "A" $20.90, we paid $10.23 inc.freight
7 pce Five Star from retailer "A" $82.50, we paid $42.70 inc.freight
7 pce Twinland from retailer "B" $42.50, we paid $10.26 inc.freight
1/4" Twinland from retailer "B" $6.00, we paid $1.27 inc.freight

The Colt bits are great, I have some Sutton brad points which are nice too.... at the end of the day though you need a really good doweling jig and good technique to be successful with dowels, more so than a great drill bit.... 'tis why I use biscuits!

Originally Posted by Hermit

Lots of interesting info.
A shame if Frost have gone downhill too - they used to be decent.

How hard are brad point drill bits to sharpen?
Jill mentioned this yesterday too.

Not hard to sharpen, just a bit of practice. Most of my bits have been turned into brad points. I'm flat out finding one to drill metal !

Use an old bit and the corner of your grinding wheel. It is a much flatter angle than a chisel so be careful. As you grind roll the bit to remove any heel, the point will centre itself. Try it with a 5mm bit and work up to the larger ones.

J Krenov covers this in one of his books.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Don't know yet Steve (another advantage of HSS M2), but that was why I started that thread that I linked to in my last post. Many seem to think it's straightforward, but I think anything smaller than 5-6mm will be very difficult/impossible. For that reason I have spares of the smaller sizes (plus the smaller they are the easier they snap, particularly with the more brittle HSS). In short, because the prices we were purchasing at were so good I stocked up - the smaller the size and the more common the use (for me) the greater the number of spares.

As an example of the prices:
8 pce Twinland from retailer "A" $20.90, we paid $10.23 inc.freight
7 pce Five Star from retailer "A" $82.50, we paid $42.70 inc.freight
7 pce Twinland from retailer "B" $42.50, we paid $10.26 inc.freight
1/4" Twinland from retailer "B" $6.00, we paid $1.27 inc.freight

They're not bad prices at all.

Personally, I can't see well enough to sharpen anything smaller than about 8mm properly. I 'get away' with a little smaller, but can't really see what I'm doing. I just replace blunt ones too. (Normal HSS bits, not BP.)

On the subject of breakages, I have a set of 12" long brad point bits that go down to 1/8". I couldn't imagine using the 1/8" without breaking. When held horizontally, it flops like a piece of spaghetti. The thicker ones are good, though.