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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    2,625

    Default Downsizing and moving to hand tools..... :) Wisdom needed!!!

    The slow motion train wreck continues!

    It looks highly doubtful I'll be doing any real workshop time for a while, so I've decided to sell up all the Big Power Tools and focus on hand tool work.

    The sale will start next week. Gobs of machines, lots of Big Stuff and giant piles of oh-so-delicious timbers (Bench1Holio, yours are set aside).


    MY QUESTION!!!!


    For those who CHOOSE to do hand tools*, do you have any preferences as to how to extreme-minimise so it:

    -- takes the least space
    -- efficient tool use
    -- ease of transport**
    -- wisdom that may be imparted

    I do have the Schwartz book called The Anarchists Toolbox, which I'll re-read this week.




    * majority or exclusively
    ** they'll live in a bedroom cupboard!

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    8,889

    Default

    WP, keep the bandsaw for resawing and ripping .... ok, a small one if it must go in the bedroom wardrobe!

    Main bench planes: jack (#5), jointer (#7) and smoother (#3 or #4).

    Add: LA block plane (LN #102), perhaps a Veritas LA Jack (great all rounder but also for shooting).

    Main joinery planes: 3/4" shoulder plane, router plane, plough plane, moving filister for rebates (a Veritas Small Plow can double as both a plough and rebate plane).

    Back saws: dovetail, tenon.

    Chisels.

    Spokeshaves: straight and curved.

    EDIT: The above represent a fairly standard complete tool chest. Below is the smallest complete chest I can think of:

    1. Veritas LA Smoother with three blades (camber one as a jack, 50 degree bevel for smoothing, 25 degree bevel for shooting and planing end grain). It can also do the work of a block plane, but a LN #102 does not take up space. Forgo the jointer, unless you plan to work long boards. Or instead get a LA Jack, which would make a great short jointer and shooting plane.

    2. Veritas Small Plow - use it for grooves and rebates.

    3. Router plane - dados and levelling. Hinge mortices (or just use a chisel).

    4. Bevel edge chisels (with minimal lands) for general work and dovetailing.

    5. 11 Sash saw (rip), which can be used for tenons, shoulders, and dovetails.

    I reckon that these 5 tools could see you through a lot of work.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    used to live in Sydney, now it's Canada
    Age
    64
    Posts
    10,739

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    MY QUESTION!!!!

    For those who CHOOSE to do hand tools, do you have any preferences as to how to extreme-minimise so it:

    -- takes the least space
    -- efficient tool use
    -- ease of transport**
    -- wisdom that may be imparted

    ** they'll live in a bedroom cupboard!
    While you still have some of the major tools rebuild the cupboard so that the hand tools are readily accessible. I suggest that each group of tools be stored on a single layer arranged by task. The drawers and shelves in a typical bedroom cupboard are far too far apart for efficient tool use.

    My tools are all in storage for the rest of this month so I can't take photos, but what I'm using are a set of tool cabinets with pull-out drawers that are only about 4" high.

    What to keep?
    Depends
    you will need joinery saws, but not necessarily large rip and panel saws for breaking down stock -- use your band saw for this.
    Planes. I have far too many. Most of the time I use a #62 (low angle jack), #6, #5 (used as both a scrub or a smoother), #42 (mostly working with the grain to shape pieces), #4, #102, #60-1/2, a hand router, a shoulder plane, and a Veritas small plow.
    Chisels. Again I have far too many for a minimalist set-up. Suggest you hang onto a couple of mortice chisels, one wide chisel (say 1-1/2 in), no more than 6 bench or dovetail chisels, a smaller fishtail chisel (or a pair of small skew chisels). Make sure you keep a couple of chisels that can team with the blades you keep for your plow plane.
    Miscellaneous. spoke shaves.
    regards from Canada

    ian

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    23,189

    Default

    In 2010 I visited the Inside Passage wood working school in British Columbia.

    The way the school works is, students are asked to turn up with a few chisels and a saw or two and spend some time making the rest of their minimalist tool kit.

    Below are are two such sets of the minimalist tool kits.
    The RHS one is made by the head instructor and the LHS one was made by James Krenov who was agues instructor at the school in his later years when he was over 80.
    From this basic tool kit James taught students how to make even decent sized pieces of Furniture.
    It shows you don't need that much.

    Jkrenovset.jpg

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Not far enough away from Melbourne
    Posts
    3,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    I do have the Schwartz book called The Anarchists Toolbox
    Can't go too far wrong there Evan. I also agree with Derek to try to keep a bandsaw as well.
    Doug3030's Open Shed Day 2019 - Sunday 6 October 2019, Hoppers Crossing
    See here for details:
    https://www.woodworkforums.com/f303/...-2019-a-224305

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Victoria
    Posts
    599

    Default

    Been giving ‘hand tools only’ a bit of thought recently and one thing i’m stuck on is the initial ripping of kumiko strips with a handsaw. Seen Adrian Preda doing all by hand but Damn its a lot of sawing....so I’d say keep the bandsaw for sure. In terms of space saving I wonder if your track saw is capable of such thin rips ie 4mm?
    You boys like Mexico ?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    5,880

    Default

    Keeping the band saw is a good idea and then splash out and buy this which I think would be ideal for an apartment but it sure is spendy with the AUD in the basement. I wonder of it would be good for Kumiko?

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...jointmaker+pro
    CHRIS

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Perth WA Australia
    Posts
    495

    Default

    IMO, there's no such thing as too many hand tools. Obviously if you have multiples of everything then it might be an issue. But, I've generally found that hand tools are easy to store/move and there will be little point in getting rid of any.

    To a degree, i disagree with the need to have a bandsaw, mostly because i don't do a much re-sawing. If you do then totally agree with others re bandsaw. However if that was the case i'd recommend keeping the thicknesser/jointer which obviously defeats the purpose of what you're trying to do.

    I would recommend a track saw, although I've got a table saw. I've used it a number of times when the table saw was... preoccuiped (read filled with junk) and it works great. It also doubles as an edge jointer.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    8,889

    Default

    To a degree, i disagree with the need to have a bandsaw, mostly because i don't do a much re-sawing. If you do then totally agree with others re bandsaw. However if that was the case i'd recommend keeping the thicknesser/jointer which obviously defeats the purpose of what you're trying to do.
    You do not "need" a jointer thicknesser if you are comfortable with handplanes. That is how it was done before machines. A bandsaw simply speeds up the process.

    Here is an article I wrote in 2008, before I had a jointer. The tools were a 14" bandsaw and handplanes.

    Preparing a board without a thicknesser-planer-jointer

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    23

    Default

    If you want to have it in your bedroom then maybe this is something for you

    YouTube

    I know it's away from the hand tools, but fits the brief of not having any space

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bundaberg
    Age
    49
    Posts
    1,732

    Default

    Have a chat with IanW; he has a portable workbench full of drawers/cupboards etc containing many of his own handmade tools. The thick top even boasts a wooden tail vise! I saw it at the 2016 Brisbane TWWS and can confirm it is no lightweight. It is ideally suited for his demonstrations etc at the shows and I'm sure would be perfect for your new requirements. It looks damn good too. Given sufficient incentive/pleading he may pass on some pictures showing the construction and the contents plus his experiences working with it and any ways he may have made it differently.

    It's entirely possible he made have posted the build on the forum but if so it would have been before the picture crash. In any case I'm a little time constrained to go hunting for it but would appreciate if anyone else knows of any pictures available? HERE is a U-Tube video of him making wooden threads at the show, although it doesn't showcase the bench it can be fairly clearly seen.
    A thief stole my anti-depressants. I hope hes happy now.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Perth WA Australia
    Posts
    495

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post
    You do not "need" a jointer thicknesser if you are comfortable with handplanes. That is how it was done before machines. A bandsaw simply speeds up the process.

    Here is an article I wrote in 2008, before I had a jointer. The tools were a 14" bandsaw and handplanes.

    Preparing a board without a thicknesser-planer-jointer

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Totally agree with you Derek in terms of "needing" a jointer/thicknesser. However that is also my point, as you also don't "need" a bandsaw for re-sawing either. IMO i'd rather resaw manually than joint/thickness multiple boards by hand.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    556

    Default

    WP,

    I have a small workshop (4x2.3) so I’m familiar with being a bit space-poor. That’s partly why I focus on box making. I guess your tool needs will follow the type of stuff you intend to build, but for my work I get by with:

    Planes: LN 4 1/2, Veritas low angle block plane, LN small router plane.

    Chisels: Nothing over 25mm.

    Hand Saws: now Japanese only.

    I don’t have a band saw. Like to have one but never been a must-have. Any bandsaw work and I jump into the Moke and head for the Men’s Shed.

    I do have a small table saw, the Festool CS50, which I find great as it is also a pull-through saw. Folds up, although I never do that. Anything big, jump in the Moke.....

    Planer/thicknesser: Don’t have either. If necessary, Moke.....

    Sanders: I have a Festool 150mm ROS but very rarely use it. Most of my sanding is done by hand using the Mirka hand sanding pads with the dust hose, although I do have a small 6/4 disc/belt sander.

    The one tool I’d most prefer not to be without is my router table. I use this a heck of a lot, although if push comes to shove I could do most of the work by hand with chisels and hand router plane.

    I don’t use air tools so no need for a compressor. If I want to spray boxes I use aerosol pre-cat lacquer, but most often I pad on hard shellac and get just as good a finish.

    I don’t keep multiples of anything, not even hand tools. It’s amazing how much space you can clear by being ruthless. Nothing in the ‘that might come in handy in 50 years’ category.

    All a bit irrelevant if you’re building boats or wardrobes; what do you have in mind?

    Good luck, Evan.

    Best regards,

    Brian

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    East of Melbourne Aus.
    Age
    68
    Posts
    893

    Default

    I gave away my router table, sold my table saw and bought a better band saw. I must get rid of more tools, routers etc. But still have a small thicknesser and jointer. Hand tools are much quicker and quieter for most stuff I do. Must get rid of some handsaws as I have too many doubles.
    I am learning, slowley.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Melb
    Posts
    843

    Default

    I remember a thread was set up by bushmiller on a minimalist tool handtool kit for his son, which I contributed.

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