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  1. #16
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    Roy, I used slices of Tassie Oak, which is quartersawn. These were ripped along the length. The side edge butted against the rear of the drawer.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  2. #17
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    The Satinwood drawer .

    A7397C4C-AC93-4809-8EBB-8DF5CF685C46.jpg BBFB20CD-2F92-4D78-AD03-544A4547170F.jpg

    The stop is on the drawer back . One on each side .The one up high to left is holding a top down that wants to spring up . Itís a ladies writing desk . Called a Bohnerdujour in French and in UK where it was a popular thing in 1790 satinwood period. bonheur du jour - Google Search

    The sides with extensions are something special . The drawer comes out further and stays pretty horizontal even after 220 years

    Rob

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by auscab View Post
    The grain direction of your cabinet caused drawers to move out by contraction of the carcass Derek not shrinkage .

    Your Harlequin table has grain running all the same direction around for the carcass Derek . Itís a bit Piano accordion in its possibilities for movement .

    My Satinwood Antique has four tapered legs and side rails with grain in the normal table like direction . Not much in the way of moving in that .
    Same goes for most of my own things . Same grain side direction and they donít give a problem .

    Rob
    Rob, your design permits complementary wood movement. There being negligible change in length compared to the width of a board suggests that Derek's design should allow for generous clearances for fitted drawers to accommodate seasonal wood movement. The eternal conundrum for cabinet makers design aesthetics vs the reality of seasonal movement of wood.
    Mobyturns

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  4. #19
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    Default Finish on the drawers and runners

    I had no idea there was so much to designing and building a drawer that will last for centuries. What a great Forum !!!

    With regards to finishing, I was going to use Livos Kunos Clear Oil on the exterior of the Northern Silky Oak carcase and on the drawer front.
    But I have no idea what to do with regards finishing the internal walls of the carcase, or the Tasmanian Oak runners screwed to the internal sides, or the drawer internal and external sides of Tassie Oak.

    Basically, I think the intent is for the drawer to slide against the carcase wall, and the slot on the side of the drawer sits on the top of the runner, so I imagine all these surfaces would need to be very smooth and waxed. Oiled perhaps, like the rest of the chest of drawers?

    Can anyone please advise the best practice for this?
    regards,

    Dengy

  5. #20
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    I never use oil inside a case as the smell can linger. I use oil on the exterior of the drawer front. Internally, I use shellac - Ubeaut Hard Shellac, which does not add colour to the Tassie Oak. Denib with grey mesh, and then wax.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dengue View Post
    I had no idea there was so much to designing and building a drawer that will last for centuries. What a great Forum !!!

    With regards to finishing, I was going to use Livos Kunos Clear Oil on the exterior of the Northern Silky Oak carcase and on the drawer front.
    But I have no idea what to do with regards finishing the internal walls of the carcase, or the Tasmanian Oak runners screwed to the internal sides, or the drawer internal and external sides of Tassie Oak.

    Basically, I think the intent is for the drawer to slide against the carcase wall, and the slot on the side of the drawer sits on the top of the runner, so I imagine all these surfaces would need to be very smooth and waxed. Oiled perhaps, like the rest of the chest of drawers?

    Can anyone please advise the best practice for this?
    Best practice I know of involves first raising the grain with water . With your sides running on the carcase and carcase grain direction itís probably best not to do it .

    My next best way is with oil . Not full bodied stuff like your using for the exterior finish . A mix made from linseed oil and turps . I wet the wood and give a good cut back with fine sand paper with the oil mix .
    You could try the same with your oil finish . Thin it right down first with mineral turps . Try 20 % finish to 80 % turps and do a test on scrap .
    Wipe it off dry so only what doesnít wipe off drys quickly . The wood gets a beautiful smooth feel to it doing this .A light rub with candle wax and they glide nicely .

    If I really want to turn the ladies on I rub a little beeswax home made wax finish in the drawer for the smell . Thereís usually enough on the outside of the piece for this for this to work but a bit extra donít hurt .



    Rob

  7. #22
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    Rob, shellac does raise the grain, but it is so fine/mild (especially on quartersawn Tassie Oak). A quick rub down with grey mesh (400 grit) leaves all smooth. Add a second coat of shellac if one desires. I never find it necessary. The shellac is really there to seal the timber. A coat of wax leaves a silky feel with a good smell.

    I really recommend Ubeat Hard Shellac, which is mixed with clear meths (alcohol). It is just so easy. I was using White Shellac previously, but they both appear to act like dewaxed shellac, and do not colour the wood. Plus the Hard Shellac is more durable and has a plasticiser, which helps where there may be some movement. The other thing that is great about shellac is that it dries within a minute, and you can re-coat or whatever.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  8. #23
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    How do you apply shellac for the internal surfaces, Derek? Brush, rag?
    regards,

    Dengy

  9. #24
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    Just wipe it on. Or use a brush and wipe off.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  10. #25
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    Zzz

  11. #26
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    Rob, shellac does raise the grain, but it is so fine/mild (especially on quartersawn Tassie Oak). A quick rub down with grey mesh (400 grit) leaves all smooth. Add a second coat of shellac if one desires. I never find it necessary. The shellac is really there to seal the timber. A coat of wax leaves a silky feel with a good smell.
    I feel this is a very much under-recognised point in finishing. If you watch anyone in a gallery, when they see something they like, the next thing they do is feel it. A light coat of shellac which is then cut back (I use 800 grit, but 400 grey mesh would be just as good) leaves the piece feeling like silk.
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  12. #27
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    I canít help myself can I .


    Fact is .
    Shellac doesnít raise grain .
    There are nibs to be cut back . But itís not raised wood grain with shellac . It is the shellac .

    The reason it may seem ď under recognised ď Alex is that itís only talked about by the IRAW ( Internet Retardoís Association of Woodwork

    The IRAW goes around in circles re educating itself over and over with false information.

    If shellac did raise grain it would be a BIG problem for french polishers . Youíd see plenty of info from them warning of the problems associated with shellac raising the grain going back a long time . Raised grain is a major hazard for finishing and must be treated and totally out of the way before a polish job starts .

  13. #28
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    Does shellac raise the grain, or is it about denibbing the dust? This is an excerpt from Woodworker's Journal with two well-known authors (and they have different views) ...

    Regards from Perth

    Derek


    A woodworker is using shellac on the top of a dresser (made from 5 pieces of glued-up pine), and the shellac seems to be raising the grain on a couple of the pieces. Whatís he doing wrong or how can he correct this problem?

    Michael Dresdner: Heís not doing anything wrong. Shellac, or more accurately, the alcohol in shellac does raise the grain of wood, and there is nothing wrong with that. Once the first coat is dry, sand very lightly with 320 or 400 grit sandpaper to smooth the surface before the next coat. But do not cut through the shellac. If you sand back into the raw wood, it will simply raise the grain again in the areas that are no longer sealed. Removing the raised grain or fur is a lot like shaving. You want to take off only the little hairs that stick up; then STOP.

    Ian Kirby: Iím not sure what he means by Ďraising the grain.í He could mean that the shredded surface tissue from the sanding has swelled. Our formal term for these raised areas is Ďnibsí and the act of removing them with sandpaper is called Ďdenibbing.í

    But there may be a different issue at play here because he refers to only a couple of pieces of the glued together board. On softwood there is a very different absorption rate between the hard and soft tissue, and that can translate into an uneven surface. If thatís the problem, he should plane the area flat again and rag on some heavy cut (thick) shellac. He will never be able to accomplish a good finish by flooding the surface with a brush.
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  14. #29
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    Id say the problem there could be a bit of woolly grain that doesn't go away with scraping sanding or planing cause I'm never going to be convinced its shellac causing it . Or more correctly the Metho mixed in with normal quality shellac mix. No matter who is writing it up .

    A solution to that woolly grain problem can be to wet down with water to raise the grain , sand back while wet and then lightly when dry. Then apply a glue size . A very thin diluted glue and water mix used for centuries for all sorts of reasons. Dry and lightly sand then go on with the finish. The glue size of the right strength will fix it . Most finishes including shellac could cement it down .

    Metho holds water . And it doesn't take much pulling water out of the atmosphere to foul the polish . If you were putting that on your job you would be wiping on a curdled mess . That amount of water probably would have a grain raising effect . Its not bad enough to do that in usable polish in My experience.

    If shellac was raising grain then so would wiping on straight metho . Wipe on a patch of water and separated from it a patch of metho next to it . The difference will be obvious.

    Do oil or spirit stains raise grain ? No . Water based stains raise grain . Preparation by wetting and sanding the raised grain has to happen before using water stains or any water based action before polishing . If you dont get it right its a disaster. Raised grain sealed in with a stain on it is a disaster because when you go to cut back , the tops of those stained nibs loses its stain and stands right out like dogus balis .

    Do a test . Coat a drawer side with shellac ready to de nib with a cut back but dont do it . Instead get a rag and wipe off the dry shellac , strip it back off .. rub and feel for the nibs of the supposed raised grain . They wont be there .

    Rob

  15. #30
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    I'll poke my head up just to mention how thoroughly informative and interesting this whole thread is. From drawer design and stops to carcass design to raised grain. I'm learning something new every day in this one thread!

    Kind regards
    Lance

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