Thread: Any easier way to do this?

It can be done a number of ways but - no offense - if you're not a woodworker, heritage building works is not a good place to start.

Architraves can be copied using routers, planes, saws, etc. they can also sometimes be built up from several pieces to recreate the effect. All methods require skill with wood and the tools.

Got a photo?

Depending on the complexity, it might be possible to build it up, either from multiple smaller mouldings or run in multiple passes with different cutters

Jobs like this come up couple of times most years. In this case its kinda irrelevant - its on the govermints shekel - but to be honest I get embarrassed saying "well its $30 for the piece of oak, and a whole $5 to double pass it through the moulder. And a couple hundred to stand a machinist at a knife grinder to make a knife to suit".

It'd have to be one piece. Same old as the same old etc etc. I'll grab a picture tomorrow.

Originally Posted by John.G

I get embarrassed saying "well its $30 for the piece of oak, and a whole $5 to double pass it through the moulder. And a couple hundred to stand a machinist at a knife grinder to make a knife to suit".

That's the cost of heritage stuff, not really much you can do about it.

for 2.4m it's almost certainly faster to cut the Heritage profile with a set of hollows and rounds.
but even a quarter set (new) will set you back thousands, and a used set requires true woodworking knowledge to restore and setup.

Lee Vallley sell a set (or individual bits) that match the profiles that could be created with a Stanley #45. But again, a "set" is not an inexpensive exercise, compared to the labour cost of grinding a set of custom shaper cutters.

Try Period Mouldings to see if they have a matching profile.

Hi John,
I believe the easiest and probably least expensive way for you is to grind a set of cutters I realize you don't feel justified in the cost to produce only 2.4m but the client has to have it that way and that's it by the time you try to source multiple other cutters to match parts of the profile and do multiple runs at separate bits of the molding to produce a piece that still may not be exactly the same and they will pick it.Even if you had the hand skills this would still take a few hours to produce and you would need to have the plane's to do the job or re grind them. A heritage job on government money they will be expecting the cost and won't blink an eyelid at it.
Regards Rod.

John, if the building was near to where you are I would look about for the closest "oldest" joinery shop. Mouldings would probably have been sourced from some where close. I have found that even if the moulding was similar it may not match if they hadn't come out of the same workshop.
I would be telling the client to look else where.

Sounds like a job for a set of moulding planes. A photo would be a big help.

see, I'd never heard of moulding planes before. Always wondered how they did that, and now I know. I pity the wrists on some of them old guys... we've done some huge crown mouldings before and I'd hate to be trying to drag a plane shifting that much wood.

What about a CNC machine? I havent got one obviously but I know where to go to find one and we've sold them timber before. I don't fully understand their capacities, or whats involved in getting them to function but I know they can do some pretty intricate stuff. Or is it a case of swapping one mans time on a knife grinder for another mans time writing a cut file?

It's 2017. I'm in the industry. I really need to get out and familiarise myself with this new fashioned stuff huh? Mostly my cabinet/joinery customers are a bit more traditional (I guess traditional now applies to things like jointers and thicknessers and tape measures instead of cut files and vacuum tables.)

I'll get a picture.

Hi John,

I have made complex mouldings using a series of router bits with the router in a table, BUT I have to say that while these were close, they were not an absolutely perfect match. Most people would not have noticed the difference once stained to match and fitted. Having owned and restored a heritage listed house (state and federal listings) I think the heritage "professionals" are getting a bit carried away. My house was built in one go by the one builder. There was still variation in mouldings in places. Variation was normal, rooms weren't square, etc. Sorry, a bit off track there.

There are quite a few suppliers of heritage mouldings in Australia and I have seen lists of suppliers on these forums in the past. Are you sure someone does not already make the exact moulding?

If you can't find such a supplier then I agree with Rod Gilbert above. Make the cutters, charge the client the real cost (may be a good idea to advise them just how much first!)

If you do do that please post/advertise the shape of the moulding and the availability for you to mould that shape so that you can help others in need of it (and maybe get some income as well).

Best regards

David

Originally Posted by John.G

Or is it a case of swapping one mans time on a knife grinder for another mans time writing a cut file?

Pretty much. I have done it in the past with CNC when I needed to make a single length of ugly handrail 2.4 long. It would have taken three sets of knives, left/right and top plus the bottom straight knife using the moulder. So there was going to be a couple hundred bux just in steel plus the time it takes to grind them (about an hour), then setup the moulder (5mins) and run the length 2.4@10meters/min...shrug. and then pull it all back down and get the moulder setup for squares again....

I hand programmed the handrail in about 2 hours because I had to calculate every point with a 0.2 stepover by hand because my old software just can't do this simple stuff with the click of a button. New software can, and if you take it to the guys and their machine can do it, it shouldn't take them more than one hour @$120bux. Then you will need to refine the surface with sandpaper or card scrapers which sounds tiresome but it doesn't take long.

Do you have a picture of the moulding? Depending on the profile a scratch tool might do the job. Easy to make and use.

Originally Posted by John.G

see, I'd never heard of moulding planes before. Always wondered how they did that, and now I know. I pity the wrists on some of them old guys... we've done some huge crown mouldings before and I'd hate to be trying to drag a plane shifting that much wood.

What about a CNC machine? I havent got one obviously but I know where to go to find one and we've sold them timber before. I don't fully understand their capacities, or whats involved in getting them to function but I know they can do some pretty intricate stuff. Or is it a case of swapping one mans time on a knife grinder for another mans time writing a cut file?

It's 2017. I'm in the industry. I really need to get out and familiarise myself with this new fashioned stuff huh? Mostly my cabinet/joinery customers are a bit more traditional (I guess traditional now applies to things like jointers and thicknessers and tape measures instead of cut files and vacuum tables.)

I'll get a picture.

A crown mould was usually done on a circular saw. The smaller shapes above and below were cut with moulding planes.
As there is only one length required it wouldnt be worth going to the expense of shaping cutters, unless you think there may be more at a later date. A well made moulder is a pleasure to use. A rub with a candle and they run as smooth as.