Thread: Edge Glueing Revisited (help a newbie out)

Is the edge from the radial saw going to be good enough?

I'd say no. You might get away with it if you use a glue with good gap filling ability but the finish might not be too flash. Also, you'll need to make sure the edges are straight so that it closes up properly and you might have trouble getting that with a radial arm saw.

You could use your router to plane a straight edge but the easiest way to do that is to mount it in a table and set up a split fence. This operates like a jointer on it's side. Alternatively, you could pick up a Stanley #6 or #7 and do it the old fashioned way.

If you are dovetailing this job, I reckon it's worth doing it properly, so I'd be going for the handplane or the router table if it was me. Biscuits and so on are a personal choice. Some people like to use them to help with alignment. I never bother myself.

Depending on whether the inside is visible after completion, maybe consider pocket holes. The jigs aren't very expensive to buy.

Gidday Rock N Rob

How you go about attempting your 'edge glueing' project essentially depends on what Tools n equipment you have at Hand. Having a limited tool kit myself I often face the same kind of problems and delemmas as yourself.................SO I'll pass on what I have learned so Far:

1. Get a good straight edge (I got an aluminium straight edge from Total Tools and use it all the time) A good quality straight edge is essential to Flush trimming or Jointing your stock with a Router................I do all my cutting lists with my circular saw then flush trim with a good quality straight bit.

2. Use Biscuits as part of your Jointing process.....................These will make your Glueup really strong..........Here's a really good link and a poll about what forum members think about Dowells Vs Buscuits (Notice the clamping Jig I used).

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...hlight=dowells

3. If you can make sure the stock you use is Joinery Grade (Nice n Dry). I Jointed n glued up (Using Dowells) some structutal grade F17 stock....................Now theres a 1 inch Cup in it due to seasonal movement (I'm going to Rip it in half and get it re thicknessed) Store your stock in your workshop for a few weeks (3 days minimum) to help it ac-climitise to your specific conditions

4. Plan your GlueUp!!! N do a dry Fit First! There are a number of ways you can go about edge glueing stock. Here's a really good article I have come across in recent times:

http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=howT.../rightNavHowTo

5. GLues are about Horses for Courses yellow glue or for that matter any of the modern commercial options will do the Job.......................I use Garret N Wade 202 GF.

Hope this Helps!..........................Good luck and keep us posted on how you get on

REgards LOu

2. Use Buscuits as part of your Jointing process.....................These will make your Glueup really strong.

Biscuits aren't necessary for long grain to long grain gluing of solid timber and I don't think they add anything in the way of strength. Like I said, some people prefer to use them to assist in lining up the boards when clamping. If you are getting the boards planed after glue up, I wouldn't think that it being slightly out of alignment will be too much of a problem for you.

If you were using particleboard, I might be inclined to agree that biscuits or a spline would be required. They have also been proven to add strength to butt joins or anywhere end grain is involved.

Originally Posted by NewLou

2. Use Buscuits

Is Wagga Wagga somewhere in New Zilland?

P

Check Ya Glasses Midge...............(THank God for the edit Button)


Time for some Pancakes

Thanks guys. NewLou, those links are really great.

More questions about the radial saw. Lets assume I can get one really great edge from the wood supplier. With that one good edge can I then use the radial saw for the other edge, or is the radial saw just not going to "cut it"?

I may be able to use the router for that edge, but I can't imagine it would come out all the much better than the method I mentioned above. I'd rather not go the hand planner route -by previous experience I am likely to do more damage than good.

rockinrob,

I do not own a radial arm saw, and I have little experience with them; but I have read that ripping with them is potentially dangerous, so I suggest that you get good information on what safety precautions you need to take before you attempt it. My advice would be to use a router and straight edge to joint the edges.

Rocker

If you nly glue up 2 or 3 (Max) boards at once, you will be able to monitor and control the alignment between boards, without biscuits.

Like NewLou says, you can use a handheld circular saw to rip a nearly straight edge, then a router to get a good edge for gluing. One trick is to use a long flush trim bit and run a router between two boards to be glued, at the same time. Did I say that right? Try again. You need to set up the two boards such that the distance between them is a smidge less than the diameter of your flush bit. After running the router between them, you should get two perfectly matching faces for gluing.

(I've also heard horror stories about ripping with a radial arm saw... dangerous..)

I like biscuits. They help with alignment and (at least psychologically if not in reality) it feels like I'm adding floating tennons. (General question...ever had to quickly stop & dismantle a panel glue up job just after starting because of a stuff up which you only just recognised. I have. Well the ones without biscuits just fall apart. The ones with biscuits are dang near impossible to get apart again.)

If this is your first panel glue-up, you might find you'd like a little time to get through the process. With PVA's and Yellow Glue, you havn't got much time to spare. It starts to go tacky real fast. And if you're fiddling with biscuits, things can get panicky in a hurry. I prefer epoxy resins with a slow hardener. Gives you 30-40 minutes of open time.

good luck with it

Richard

General question...ever had to quickly stop & dismantle a panel glue up job just after starting because of a stuff up which you only just recognised. I have. Well the ones without biscuits just fall apart. The ones with biscuits are dang near impossible to get apart again.

When you put the glue on the bisuit, it will absorb the moisture and swell up inside the slot. Obviously this will make it harder to remove them before the glue goes off. It doesn't imply any added strength to a long grain to long grain joint but it certainly wont hurt.

Silent, what happened to the cricket match? But I digress...

An idea came to mind regarding biscuits and edge gluing that may be totally incorrect, but I thought I'd put it out there for comment.

If it's long grain contact that provides most of the gluing strength, why don't biscuits provide additional long grain contact? Effectively, isn't the surface area of the biscuit also providing extra long grain contact?

You could calculate the surface area of contact between just the two board edges alone, then calculate the surface area of the sides of the biscuit (and then subtract the edge area if you're an anally rententive stickler for exactitude) and come up with a percentage increase in long grain contact because of the biscuits. This would vary depending upon the thickness of the boards and how many biscuits you used.

But if, say, you were gluing 30 mm thick boards and used biscuits at 200 mm intervals, my guess is you'd be increasing long grain contact by about 10-15% or more? And if you were gluing say 12mm - 20mm panels, the increase in long grain contact would be up around 30% or more. I think. (Anyone want to do the math?)

So if the biscuits are increasing long grain contact (and my biscuits look like real wood with long grain along the long axis), then there should be additional stength??

Is there an expert out there?

Richard

Don't forget you have cut slots into the timber as well, so whilst it is true that you have increased the long grain contact you have also increased the length of the join and so any added strength would be eliminated by that. See?

Now, here is some music....

I think that there is one issue that is being forgotten/overlooked. Glue (joints) are much stronger in shear than in tension. The biscuits add shear area ergo strength.
My twopenneth
Jacko