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  1. #1
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    Sep 2011
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    Default Excessive Noise from Woodwork Power Tools

    Hi all,

    Had nice visit today from a rep from the local council. Someone anonymously phoned the council and complained about the noise from my woodwork tools. The two tools in question would be mainly my table saw, and my router. I do not own a thicknesser as I live in a residential area and am very much aware of how noisy those machines can be.

    He was very polite. I usually only do my woodwork about 4 or 5 days a week from about 10.30am to 4, maybe 4.30pm. With a break during lunch time from about 12.30pm to 2pm. Naturally I use my saw, rip up some timber, turn it off again. Same with my router, not like I have these running 8 hours a day all day ever day. About a week or so ago, a mate of mine from my bowling club gave me a fair bit of timber, some of which was pretty chunky and I spent about 2 hours continuously ripping it down to a workable size. That would have been about the time this complaint come in.

    The meeting with this council rep ended by him saying that whenever I use these two tools I could close my two rollers doors to quiten the sound externally.

    Following all this I went to the NSW EPA site and it pretty clearly states that you cannot use power tool outside the hours of 7am to 8pm.

    I have now emailed/submitted all this back to the local council and asked for a clear and concise ruling on all of this. I certainly don't want to be frightened anytime I turn on a power tool during daytime, someone might phone up and complaint, next thing I am served with some "excessive noise order".

    Anyone else had similar incidents or thoughts on this matter

    Paul

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth W.A
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    720

    Default

    Hi Paul I am in a similar situation to you, I have a workshop in our double garage that is on a small block on an estate, I have been doing woodworking on a regular basis for 5 years over here and not had any problems so far.

    I had a really noisy benchtop thicknesser that was horrendously noisy but now have a spiral head comdination machine that is really quiet in comparison.

    The only time I had any problem was when I had a similar set-up in England and the neighbours next door reported me, the council came round and did fertive sound readings.

    The neighbours were real di$#heads and we had to put up with their crap on a daily basis.
    They were renting the house nextdoor because they had a scaffolding business and managed to bankrupt themselves and lost everything.We didn't feel sorry for them because they were truly awful people.

    I think they had one son that the cops were after and the other one was constantly revving up his (some rustbucket bought by his father for about £50)car on the driveway and once rammed into the gate that was fixed to our garage wall.
    He couldn't drive on the road as he was incapable of passing the driving testfor some reason

    Anyway one night the car mysteriously caught fire, you can probably guess how that happened and why.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Caroline Springs, VIC
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    1,645

    Default

    I have the exact same concerns, which were only made worse when i happened to notice a council worker standing out the front of my house writing something into a clipboard. I had just finished jointing some 6x1's and then ran the biscuit joiner into it, both noisy operations. He then sat in his ute parked 2 houses away for about 45mins (i sat in the living room and watched TV until he was gone ).

    I am in Victoria, so there may be some differences, but the rules seem to be the same as you stated. I can use powertools between 7am-8pm mon-fri, and then 9am-8pm sat/sun and public holidays.
    http://www.epa.vic.gov.au/your-envir...idential-noise

    but the answer to the question on that page "Is noise always acceptable outside the prohibited times?" is "No. Noise must not be unreasonable at any time during the day. Noise in the day or evening that continues for too long, or is too loud might be unreasonable. Noise that disturbs neighbours throughout their living and recreation areas is likely to be a problem. All reasonable steps should be taken to reduce and control noise."

    I always keep my garage doors shut, not that it does much, there is 3 doors, just colorbond roller doors, so i cant insulate them like i would if they were panellift doors. So apart from trying to reduce the noise at the machinery, i have a some MDF sheets standing against 2 of the three doors, rendering those 2 doors unusable unless i move the heavy sheets again n again. I also go out of my way not make noise before 11am, or after 5pm, and whereeva possible i get all my ducks lined up nicely so i can get the noisy operations done in one block quickly. ive found that the most annoying noise that i make is from the orbital sander, so i have ordered a quieter one which im hoping is here on friday this week.

    if/when someone complains and the EPA serves me a bit of paper, im gonna stop the woodwork and start renovating my house (new bathroom, ensuite, kitchen, WIR etc etc) and ill be starting at 7am on the dot, and since im lazy it might take me 12months to complete, then ill sell the place and buy a factory and live there instead

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW
    Posts
    3,330

    Default

    I've had the same problem. Anonymous complaint to council, letter from council. Now I make sure I close the garage door every time I'm in my garage/shed. I have done some home-made sound proofing of the noisy machines, and I'm scrupulous about not doing anything outside 9am to 5pm.

    For a long time it made me quite paranoid but my wife has maintained that what I have done is all they were really asking for - a bit of consideration. I'm not aware of any current discontent.

    Cheers
    Arron
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    27,756

    Default

    I'm on a very inner suburban block with 5 very close neighbours including the neighbour over the back who has his entertainment area right next to my shed. My aim was to sound proof my shed so my activities at night was no louder that his pool pump which runs all hours of the day and night. I also have my compressor and 3HP DC outside in sound reducing enclosures so sound reduction was a serious challenge for me.

    The most useful thing to help improve sound levels in a shed is a sound pressure level (SPL) meter. These days you can get apps that do this for free and although they are not that accurate they will tell you if what you are doing to reduce noise is making any difference. If you use your ears for that you will end up going around in circles. I use the App from Faber Acoustical it costs money but it's one of the best $10 you'll spend if you are serious about noise control. I've tested it against a pro sound meter at work and it's accurate to within a couple of dB. It does struggle with low frequencies but that is the problem with small mics in mobile phones.

    This also means you can also measure the noise the neighbours make - do all measurements at the fence line so they are comparable.

    The most important thing about minimising sound levels from a shed is that the shed has to be more or less air tight. If there are eave or other gaps these should be eliminated. Roller and sliding doors are very difficult to seal so if you want to noise proof a shed unfortunately they need to be changed to something else. The best roller door solution I have seen uses heavy double walled MDF internal doors behind the roller that opened outwards on wheels once the roller is all the way up. A pelmet type housing has to be built over the roller assembly but that is not that difficult to do. This solution takes up some space but it solves the roller door noise problem.

    If your shed is sealed then you will definitely need good dust extraction and you need to find a way to let air in without letting the sound out. This is not impossible using an appropriate baffled intake.

    Thermal insulation and some form of internal lining will help with noise and heat. Even a layer of corrugated iron as lining will be better than nothing provided there is some decent soft insulation behind it. The mini orb (low profile corrugated iron) I have in the MW end of my shed is excellent. I only realised later that this is sold as a noise reducing lining for large areas like factories and shopping centre etc. If you want cheap then Gyprock is still one of the most value for money noise reducing materials around.

    Then look at some of the activities that you do and maybe see if these can be done differently. Bandsaws can be quieter than table saws, Keep cutters sharp etc.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Langwarrin, Victoria, Australia
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    55
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    677

    Default

    I too got letter from council, ascerting that I was running a cabinet making business.

    Bloke from council very nice, and after explaining what I was doing, told me I had every right to continue, as long as it wasn't excessive or outside hours.

    What pee'd me off most was that neighbor didn't even consider coming over and having a chat. They have youmg kids who need sleep during the day ... No problem .. fair enough. But have some spine and knock on the door and have a chat.

    Insult to injury ... Same neighbor has regular get togethers that run all night with loud music.

    Funny eh ?
    Glenn Visca

  8. #7
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    May 2007
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    North of the coathanger, Sydney
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    Interesting

    My neighbour only ever complains if I have the music up too loud - Really don't know whats what wrong with triple J or Led Zep or ...

    but I never get a complaint when using the thicky or the chainsaw - This could be because I can't hear her!

    But then another neighbour got mightily off when I was using a chainsaw on a public holiday - fwit
    regards
    Nick
    veni, vidi,
    tornavi
    Without wood it's just ...

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Valla Beach
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    Thanks fellas, I really didn't think I would get this response so soon. Seems I am not alone in this matter. When the council rep left he suggested I only use these tools with my roller door closed and left it at that. I think he just wanted to close the case. The anonymous case.

    But later in the day after thinking about it I reversed the situation and emailed back to the council, referring to the NSW EPA site etc etc as I am certainly not using these power tools outside of the times. Usually I just work in my shed from about 10.30am to 12.30pm, have lunch, fiddling around a bit, and maybe work again in my shed from 2pm to 4.30pm'ish.

    I asked council for a clear and concise comment as to my situation in regards to the NSW EPA site guidelines. Basically so they have to reply to me and I have something on record.

    But I do understand what your all saying about keeping the noise down. I just have a double garage, I drive my car out, wheel my De Walt table saw over, or something like that. I have two roller doors, I really don't think I could or would go through the hassle your referring to in order insulate these.

    The joys of being a woodworker,

    Paul

  10. #9
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    Sep 2010
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    Sydney
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sawdust Maker View Post
    Interesting

    My neighbour only ever complains if I have the music up too loud - Really don't know whats what wrong with triple J or Led Zep or ...

    but I never get a complaint when using the thicky or the chainsaw - This could be because I can't hear her!

    But then another neighbour got mightily off when I was using a chainsaw on a public holiday - fwit
    Interesting... The one time you did some work somebody heard it!

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Perth W.A
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    720

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    I can understand neighbours being wary about to face confrontations and preferto stay anonymous.
    I had a neighbour back in England who complained about someone's dogs continually barking.

    One day he was getting into his car and was set upon by this guy half his age and was visciously assaulted and put into hospital, this was after he had suffered a heart attack 2 weeks before.

    The guys family all colaborated on some bullcr$& statement and said my neighbour had attacked him first.


    Quick
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn.Visca View Post
    I too got letter from council, ascerting that I was running a cabinet making business.

    Bloke from council very nice, and after explaining what I was doing, told me I had every right to continue, as long as it wasn't excessive or outside hours.

    What pee'd me off most was that neighbor didn't even consider coming over and having a chat. They have youmg kids who need sleep during the day ... No problem .. fair enough. But have some spine and knock on the door and have a chat.

    Insult to injury ... Same neighbor has regular get togethers that run all night with loud music.

    Funny eh ?

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    3,260

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    The reply is simple:

    "Well, if I give up woodworking, I'll have to go back to my old hobby, greenskeeping. That's where I look after my lawn really well, mowing it daily starting at 7am. I find that it grows so well I sometimes have to mow it once or twice more again during the day, due to a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder that I suffer from - it's really annoying, I have to mow really slowly too as if I miss bits I feel that I have to go back to the beginning and start again! Then I have to vacuum up the cuttings with my 2 stroke leaf vacuum."

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Camden, NSW
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    74
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    I am blessed with lovely neighbours and, to date, I haven't had a single complaint. It's not unusual for a neighbour or two to turn up at the shed door with a cuppa for a chat but I worry what will happen if/when I retire and work in the shed more often? However, over the years I have replaced the screaming portable tools with 'rumbling' stationary machines AND, when I retire, I am more likely to be working in less sensitive working hours on work days?
    I have a mobile phone sound meter app and measure sound levels at the fence line but the only thing I now worry about is the continuous rumble of the dust collector and my last 'screamers', my routers. The DC will soon be in a dedicated sound enclosure so I am left with the routers as a potential source of disturbance and hence complaints. I can either be strict about the time I use the router OR separately sound proof them. Is there a technical solution? Are there brushless induction routers? I had a 'rumbling' spindle moulder but it scared the daylights out of me and sold it to Pat who now describes his start up routine as " fit the new bit, check it, check it again, get under the bench, start the machine ....and only come out after about 30 seconds when and if there are no extra loud noises"....!
    fletty
    a rock is an obsolete tool ......... until you don’t have a hammer!

  14. #13
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn.Visca View Post
    Insult to injury ... Same neighbor has regular get togethers that run all night with loud music.
    Thats when I get my SPL app out and note the time and SPL.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Canberra
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    Noise is inevitable.

    Despite the fact we are allowed to make it by noise, its sensible to be reasonable.

    After 3 years I've yet to hear any form of complaint, simply because I talk to my neighbours and ask them to tell me if it ever get excessive. I also don't start until 10 and try to finish by 6. I've told them if they or their kids are sick to give me a hoy... there is always something else I can do for the day.

    Noise suppression is a big thing. I made removable storm-shutter like things for the windows and fitted the shed door with some very excellent thick silver insulation. It stops the heat/cold and mitigates a good chunk of noise. (router is boxed too)

    As a point, when I lived in Sydney, I had a neighbour who had cancer/chemo and nobody knew... he was at home, next door, suffering while the kids were screaming and I was a-buzzing. We only found out a few weeks in. Made me feel like a bastard... poor chap.. this is why I always door-knock.

    You cant help the a$$holes though... Id reckon the council just does the required sit-and-test when they get them call.... you won't be the first person they have had a whinge about. The council will have a file 3 inches think of rubbish from these clowns. In North Sydney they were endemic.... knew all their rights, right up until it applied to them. A$$holes are a$$holes. Council have THEM well spotted, not you.

    Just be sensible.

  16. #15
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    Oct 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evanism View Post


    Id reckon the council just does the required sit-and-test when they get them call.... you won't be the first person they have had a whinge about. The council will have a file 3 inches think of rubbish from these clowns. In North Sydney they were endemic.... knew all their rights, right up until it applied to them. A$$holes are a$$holes. Council have THEM well spotted, not you.

    Just be sensible.
    This is very true. My father leased a property to an ex-cop turned manager of council by-law enforcement. He paid his rent and at face value seemed like a decent fella. Then he started to complain....about the milkman delivering milk to the neighbours across the road at 7am, bottles rattling!!! So the neighbours, which had built and lived there for 10yrs prior, cancelled there milk deliveries. And then he told me about how he left an anonymous letter in the mailbox of a noisy dog owner "do something about the dog or I will!". I asked him "which house?", we had to walk about 900meters to the place, across streets and around corners. Essentially he has made a career out of complaining about other ppl.

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