Thread: Files and Rasps any Comparison??

I guess it is pretty hard to tell if you cant pick it up and have a look at the teeth. So far I have got by with off the shelf rasps and files and have not lashed out on fancy wood rasps. the ones I use on wood are kept separate from the metalwork files. Half round are handy.
I have been toying with the idea of a nice curved and tapered wood rasp however as it looks like it would make life easier.
Regards
John

Yes, a tricky one Dale. I can't comment on the Iwasaki comparison. Auriou and Liogier stitching numbers are comparable (I guess there was a standard set up for them). I guess the Gramercy are comparable with them too, but not sure.

As for Abrasives comparison, a #15 hand cut rasp (the finest grain) is about the same as the finish from 120 grit hand finish sandpaper. Some say its like 150 paper, but I think it's a little coarser.

I bought a $2.99 brass bristle BBQ brush to keep my files and rasps clean.
If they jam up and pack up with shreds and cuttings, the brand is not at all relevant.
As a wood carver working mostly in soft woods, the shreddies are common.

I buy boxes of old-fashioned, school board chalk sticks for my files.
With the bottoms of all the grooves filled with chalk, they always cut cleanly and smoooooothly,
no bunged-up shreds to make the file bump and run.

I make some things from 6mm copper rods, various aluminium profiles and some iron/steel stock.
The chalk gives me a very appealing surface result, every time.

Auriou
Stitching Grain (the cut) The grain or "cut" is based on a scale of 1 -15 where 1 is super coarse (only ever used in industrial special orders) and 15 is super fine.









From Workshop Heaven

Continental Hand Stitched Rasp Set 1

Rasp Set 1 is a good general purpose set of hand stitched Continental rasps comprising: 200mm Flat 28 teeth per cm 200mm Round 28 teeth per cm 200mm Halfround 28 teeth per cm 150mm Flat 38 teeth per cm 150mm Round 38 teeth per cm 150mm Halfround 38 teeth per cm The teeth of these rasps are raised by hand in the traditional way from a finely ground high carbon steel blank strapped to a lead block. They cut faster and produce a much more even surface than a machine made rasp.

Iwaski or Japanese milled tooth files

Regardless of their overall dimensions, files with an identical grade of cut have the same number of teeth per inch.
Extra Fine/ Extreame Fine, Fine, Medium, Heavy/Bastard







Comparison of coarse (left) fine (center) and extra fine (right) carving files. The tooth distance (pitch) of the coarse files is 3 mm, of fine files is 1.6 mm, of the extra fine files 1.2 mm
Machine cut Rasp vs Iwaski

RV, what we have to be careful about here (maybe the same there) is brass plated steel brushes which will blunt the rasp teeth. Liogier have sourced some German made brushes with solid brass bristles that are are in good bunches - bristles are about 25mm long. They do a really good job. The bristled area is about 100x25mm.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

RV, what we have to be careful about here (maybe the same there) is brass plated steel brushes which will blunt the rasp teeth. Liogier have sourced some German made brushes with solid brass bristles that are are in good bunches - bristles are about 25mm long. They do a really good job. The bristled area is about 100x25mm.

I thought even brass was a no-no. You were suppose to use a stiff natural bristle like hog hair. Liogier recommend and supply the brass ones???

The Iwasaki reminds me more of a float than a rasp (a float is essentially a Milled File that has had the teeth sharpened with a saw file, and the teeth are perpendicular to the the edge rather than oblique).

I think the only way to compare the performance of an Iwasaki to a hand stitched rasp is to use both. The Iwasaki will give a better finish (being more float like) but may not remove material as quickly (a #6 rasp will REALLY get moving). Of course the finish is only relevant to the final rasp being used - before that it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by DSEL74

I thought even brass was a no-no. You were suppose to use a stiff natural bristle like hog hair. Liogier recommend and supply the brass ones???

Brass is fine - particularly on a Sapphire coated rasp as they are for use on soft metals as well as plastics and very hard woods. It's also a matter of the direction you brush the teeth. I don't go down the axis of the rasp, but obliquely following the line of the teeth stitching lines, and I don't rub it too hard. However, some disagree (I know Derek does). The brass will give the rasp a bit of a brassy sheen, and you'd have to think that would assist with rust prevention on an uncoated rasp. I reckon even hog bristle would struggle with some timbers. Again, it would be a matter of side by side comparison.

Brass Brushes from Liogier are here. You may recognise Ian's handles in the pic to the left of the brushes

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

The Iwasaki reminds me more of a float than a rasp (a float is essentially a Milled File that has had the teeth sharpened with a saw file, and the teeth are perpendicular to the the edge rather than oblique).

I think the only way to compare the performance of an Iwasaki to a hand stitched rasp is to use both. The Iwasaki will give a better finish (being more float like) but may not remove material as quickly (a #6 rasp will REALLY get moving). Of course the finish is only relevant to the final rasp being used - before that it doesn't matter.

I know Klaus (Two Layers) who was a great advocate of Liogier has benched most other tools for the Iwasaki files, he said they are just as fast as the hand stitched rasps but leave a better surface finish.
What he doesn't mention in his post is what Stich Rasp for what cut Iwaski! He did say he sometimes still used the 15 Stitch Liogier (Unknown size model) to finish off.

So does this say the 15 Stitch Liogier is finer than the Ultra fine Iwaski or just based on what he has at hand who knows. There is not doubt that the hot item in hand stitched rasps currently are the Liogier. Just wondering for my purposes and budget if a mix of brands is my best bet.

Pity the Saw Making class was after the Melbourne Wood show because I'd go back now armed with a little experience and test a few things that were on offer out.

Probably best to send Klaus an email and ask. The #15 he refers to may well be a handle makers. Rasps are available in an enormous variety of shapes and sizes, but of course that is only relevant to the particular application.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Probably best to send Klaus an email and ask. The #15 he refers to may well be a handle makers. Rasps are available in an enormous variety of shapes and sizes, but of course that is only relevant to the particular application.

I sent him a PM, hopefully he can remember what size.