Thread: Why have a front vice on the left?

Hi blackadder,

maybe it would be helpful to let us know what kinds of things you are making with your bench. Or what you would like to make. And you say you have bench; so do you have a tail vice? DO you hvae dog holes in the top?

You also said you don't have all the machinery, but do you have hand planes or want to use them?

A bit more info and you might get a bit better advice.

My understanding is that if you are not going to be planing and want the vice ONLY for cut-offs then right side is OK. But if you are going to want to do some planing and you are a right hander then the general wisdom is you want to plane into the vice. The vice holding the work or holding the work piece and the piece is jammed up against the screws of the vice giving you a good solid support to plane against.

the dogs and things are just transfering this solid support from being your vice to being the bench really. If you don't have a tail vice already then you can get by with a wonder dog to clamp things to hold for planing. Or even just use batens and an end stop. no clamping.

Having the vice at the end (and it depend on the size etc) just means that you may bang ya leg or hip sometimes when planing. Down the LHS of the bench and it is out of the way, you can get close to the bench (planing against a bench dog) and plane away with out leaning over so much and stressing your back etc.

Do some searching on the net for bench hooks and tail vices and bench dogs etc and see what they are and how they hold work.

Maybe even some of the helpful people here might show some pics of there benches " in action" showing how they hold work etc.

Anyway good luck

Rob

you may bang ya leg or hip sometimes when planing

I knew there was a sensible reason why just about every bench I have ever seen has the vice on the left - that's it

A contrarian I know, but I have a vice on both right and left . . . and often use both to hold a piece in place.

As others have said try to always use right tool for the job and the way you are comfortable working - I also have two engineer's vices and various clamps, bench hooks etc.

You can ignore tradition and convention unless it makes sense and works for you, but they are often traditional and conventional because so many have found they work well, so it's worth making sure that your new way really is better for you.

Just my 2.2c worth...

I am right handed. If I want to saw with my right hand, I want to support the offcut with my left hand (assuming you are cutting right through), and this is only done easily by a vice on the left, with the saw line past the left of the bench, and the waste sticking out even further to the left, being supported by my left hand. If you don't want to support the offcut, either way would do. If you want to use a bench hook, you need to clamp the stock with your left hand, so you saw to the right of the bench hook or stop.

Ar5e about for kaki handed people...

Whatever feels best for you...

Chris

Originally Posted by banksiaman

Just my 2.2c worth...

I am right handed. If I want to saw with my right hand, I want to support the offcut with my left hand (assuming you are cutting right through), and this is only done easily by a vice on the left, with the saw line past the left of the bench, and the waste sticking out even further to the left, being supported by my left hand. If you don't want to support the offcut, either way would do. If you want to use a bench hook, you need to clamp the stock with your left hand, so you saw to the right of the bench hook or stop.

Ar5e about for kaki handed people...

Whatever feels best for you...

Chris

All true BM, but most also advocate sawing 'right hand side, waste side of line'. With your method, you are obliged to saw LEFT hand side of the line to stay in the waste, which means you can't see the line without contortions, if you are right handed. That's why bench hooks were invented - well, one reason, anyway.

You know, I have the strong feeling that front vises, being a relatively recent invention, were stuck on the left side to keep them out of the way during most cabinetmaking operations. Bench dogs & stops have a much longer pedigree, so got first preference.

I think a concesus is emerging here, that with people doing so many different things on their benches other than sizing and fitting largish furniture parts, where you fix any general-purpose vise can (and should be) much more a matter of how you like to work and what you do most of.

Cheers,

Not sure about that Ian. I've got a copy of The Workbench Book and I'm looking at a drawing of a bench now which has an enclosed tail vise and a twin-screw face vise dating from 1505. There are various drawings of benches from circa 1700, one of which has a twin screw face vise on the right, but it's on it's own. Various other illustrations and photos of benches from the middle ages, through the 18th and 19th centuries all show leg vise, shoulder vise or face vise on the left.

One clue might be that some benches have no front vise, but instead have a hook that you plane into. Could be the front vise was fitted in the same place because that seemed the logical place to put it.

Originally Posted by IanW

All true BM, but most also advocate sawing 'right hand side, waste side of line'. With your method, you are obliged to saw LEFT hand side of the line to stay in the waste, which means you can't see the line without contortions, if you are right handed. That's why bench hooks were invented - well, one reason, anyway.
Cheers,

IanW, I accept what you say, I use whatever I need to get the job done easily, hook, stop or vise, but I don't see your point seeing the line. I look down the line of the saw, one eye on each side, and can see the line either side, no probs. Maybe it is my old microscope training, keep both eyes open even if is a monocular, let your brain sort it out, it works really well even if it takes some getting used to.

If it feels good, do it...(now to convince the handbrake )

Would be interesting to watch you sawing.

If you adopt a normal sawing stance, you are standing with your right shoulder back, which necessitates having your body on the left of the saw and the cut, and would seem to me to make it clumsy to peer over the saw to the other side. A normal sawing stance would have the waste to the right of the line and the line on the left of the saw.

Not saying your way is wrong, but it is unorthodox and I can't see it working with a saw horse if you were having to kneel on the board you were cutting.

Originally Posted by silentC

Would be interesting to watch you sawing.
Not saying your way is wrong, but it is unorthodox and I can't see it working with a saw horse if you were having to kneel on the board you were cutting.

I probably do as you say when sawing on a sawhorse, as you are directly above the cut, but the discussion was using a vise (or hook etc ) for sawing etc, where you are sawing at 45deg? from the vertical, not above it.

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread - I didn't mean it to.

Chris

I guess I'm just thinking about the natural (for me) sawing motion, which is across the body, standing with the left foot forward and the right shoulder back so that the elbow clears the midriff. To look at the other side of the blade I think I would be trying to peer over my shoulder and would be hard to do without throwing the stroke out of whack and probably going off line. I suppose it's just a muscle memory thing. I might give it a go next time and see what happens.

Banksia - yeah - I often ignore the 'rule' too - particularly when sawing dovetails or similar situations - too lazy to take the piece out & flip it. However, I do find it a bit awkward to sight the line if it's on the right of the saw. Not so bad with a small backed saw, but almost impossible (for me) with a panel or rip saw. I've spent most of my life staring down microscopes too, but strictly binoculars, thank goodness. (Other than as an undergrad - HATED the bleedin' things - apart from the poor quality optics & not knowing what the heck I was supposed to be seeing, I just couldn't keep the 'spare' eye open, much as they tried to beat me out of it! Dunno how I ended up doing what I do.....)

Silent - ok, I was thinking of even further back than 1505 - screw vises would have been around a while before that, but even then, benches sem to have been pretty plain affairs.... I was also being a bit facetious - I don't really think I know why the vise is put on the left - the reasons given so far in the thread are about as good as any!

Avagoodnight,

G'Day all again,

Well, my question certainly got quite a few responses and towards the end, I think my true reasoning came to the surface, having the saw in the waste area of the cut means having it to the right of the cutting line.

Thanks to all who have responded, all thoughts and advice is gladly accepted.

I think one of the best reason supplied against having the vice on the right (to have the vice on the left) side so far was so you don't bang your hip on it while planeing.

So, maybe time to look at some bench hooks but nobody tell the missus.


BlackAdder

if you think it would be better for cutting on the right,,how would you hold the peice you are cutting off?
or does it just fall on the floor taking tearouts with it . just my theory. bob

Hi Blackadder,

So ya gonna av a go with the bench hooks...

Find some ideas on the internet or seach here for some picks and you can make your own. Just get a design, basically a board with a stop board at one end and another at the other end but on the bottom of the board. Like a "z".

Slap one up and give it go. then you will see how it works and then ya can make another (if needed) to suit ya work.

Ya could try some flip up stops on the RHS on the bench . then ya can still cut on the RH end tha way ya like it. wood hanging over the end. Just remmeber to do the over hand back hold to stop the a good piece droppin to the floor if it is that way around. Hmmm. I suppose ya could just flip things around....Hmmm

the bench hook can be used at the end of the bench or in the middle or anywhere you have bit of space amongst the detritus building up on the bench. (you do av that don't ya? ) Used in the middle reaches of the your expansive bench top will allow the waste (or the other end) to drop to the deck (only a short distance), or even put a bit scap under it and no drop at all, and no worrying about breakout when ya get near the end. ya know...those fuzzy spikey things...(ya do get them too don't ya?)

Just watch the angle of ya saw that ya don't cut inta the bench top. Very annoying...

And in case ya didn't catch on, I'm in a bit of an odd mood...Have fun

Rob