Thread: Getting started - recomendations?

GARM,

It's called E-BAY, . Seriously RE: SAWs' get the tennon and cross cut , SPEAR & JACKSON, IF YOU CAN, for ripping a small power saw( 6 1/4" or 7/14" would be fine) is best unless you are intent on building muscles,.

As for chisels you can get Stanley sets for a reasonable price or buy individual as required, I used to haunt the flea markets and picked up several Swedish steel chisels very cheaply, just needed new handles, ( I have a wood lathe) ,.

Flea markets are an excellent source if the budget is tight , as you can bargain for your tools, and if electric and they only last a year , then it's a year that you can save for a better quality new tool.

My 2 cents worth.

Jeff
QLD

Hi Garm. Welcome to the forum. I've started collecting tools in the last 12 months. I am doing things much like you are. I bought a #7 jointer plane, and a Japanese saw. Try Stuart from 'tools from Japan', (www.toolsfromjapan.com) his prices are good incl postage, u just have to wait for them to come over from Japan.

Garm,

Have a look at this thread, although aimed at a children's startup set of tools, you can do much worse thinking that you need many tools, or expensive tools to get going.

Some broad suggestions I have are:

- buy tools specific to the job you are doing - starting with some basic projects, a saw horse like this for instance, build a tool chest for your tools - you gain confidence and skills that you build on, then you use the things you build for other projects.
- sharp tools are essential, you'll be frustrated with them if they aren't
- just because Mr Woodworker says he did it with X tool, doesnt mean you can't try it with a different tool you already own

There's more than one way to achieve your goals, and that you probably can do so by building a small, cheap, sharp set of core tools like this:

- chisels - english makers 2-3 of the common sizes you need for your type of work 1/4" - 3/4" ($3-7 each at markets)
- a jack plane, and a sharp blade - learn how to sharpen it for roughing, jointing, smoothing (if you can have 3 blades setup for each); or have 3 planes - a jack (no 5 commonly), a jointer (no 7), and smoother (4 or 4 1/2)
- a square that is square
- tape
- a pencil
- a saw, from bunnings is ok for now but if it were me i'd just get a $9 all purpose handsaw rather than bother with their garbage tenon saws; if you want to invest in a Japanese saw from Tools from Japan you wont be disappointed. Email Stuart and he'll help you decipher what you need for the work you do.

There is a great deal that you can achieve with the above kit and a couple of sawhorses. It assumes you have a few household tools like a hammer.

The slippery slope goes from there - next you'll build a workbench and the rest will be history.

Use fellow woodworkers in your area. Use these forums and other websites. Read books from your local library.

For me the above advice would have been very helpful a few years ago. There's always many ways to achive a goal though. You might find you'll be better off long term actually limiting the tools that you have at the start, learning to use them, sharpen them and move on and up from there.


Hope it helps,

Nick

Wow those japanese tools are wayyyyy cheaper than other japanese sites I had seen. I love japanese knives so I might go for them - especially as they are only a tad more expensive than spear and jackson saws from bunnings.

I'm thinking a Ryoba and a smaller Dozuki for a small tenon/dovetail equivalent. Now that I know what I'm searching for I've found a lot more info in the forums. I just have to decide exaclty which ones to get.

I think I'll just buy a cheap jack plane and scan the markets for decent chisels though. Unless I prove to myself I am commited to woodworking I can't really justify spending more on tools than what I would on buying the items that are on my current project list :P I've already got enough hobbies that were started to 'save money in the long run' but that have happily sucked away any gains.

~~~~~~[below is in response to last post that appeared as I was typing the above - it's a bit rushed because I'm now running late for work though :P]

I've been collecting woodworking books from the lifeline book fairs for a while - I just haven't had space to actually make anything. I am decent at sharpening both crappy abused kitchen knives (from my parents) and decent high carbon ones of my own so I am set up to take care of my tools. The other thread looks really useful too.

Thanks for the list of chisels and planes - it can be hard to tell exactly which ones are the best choice. I agree about limiting my tools for now though. I;d prefer get to know and correctly use a few tools than have heaps that I can sort of use.

Originally Posted by Garm

I think I'll just buy a cheap jack plane and scan the markets for decent chisels though.

Dont overlook good quality Sheffield steel - marples, sorby, woodcock to name a few. They are cheap and readily available at weekend markets.

As for a Jack plane - even try asking in the "wanted to buy" section on this website. There's Hans Brunners website and others as well.

I have upgraded some plane blades to aftermarket replacements - its worth the money in my opinion. They are a little thicker than the original, and better steel.

I didnt mention sharpening stones before, and its likely to cause some debate - but if you have a coarse diamond stone, a 1000 and 6000 Japanese waterstone you can get a nice edge. Again Stuart from Tools from Japan is the man to ask about waterstones. A honing guide is useful until you can be confident freehand.

Nick

A temporary work bench of a board on saw horses is fine but for prolonged work you will probably find that it is too low and you will get a sore back. The other problem is the board will tend to slide on the horses unless it is clamped down.

I have too much stuff (junk) on my own workbench so find I am doing a lot of stuff on a board sitting on top of a pair of saw horses.

Do not be afraid of buying a couple of clamps.

Look for some good quality second hand stuff. When it comes to hand tools a lot of the current offerings are pretty ordinary. In days gone by, hand tools were the tools of trade and made accordingly.
Saws: Spear and Jackson or Disston. Planes: Stanley, Bailey or Record. Chisels: Old Marples, Stanley, Titan. There are many other brands that are very good chisels but they are sort after and therefore expensive. You may get lucky though.
As for state of the art stuff, we are blessed with some very good makers here in Australia. Again, you have to pay for quality and one must learn to walk before running.

Here is a copy of an email Stuart sent to me answering my question on saws:

"But breaking that into a couple of different saws isn't quite as easy, or easier depending on how you look at it.

There are Z Saw saws, which are pretty good but not quite to the same level as the Nakaya or Gyokucho I don't think. But to get a proper rip and cross cut, Z are about it really.

What I'd suggest is the 8 cho-me rip, a 8 cho-me crosscut and a 'hardwood' version, which is 3 saws, but 3 largely unkillable saws. I know, I've tried. Had a rip completely buried in a 12" wide piece of beech, and never hurt anything except the wood. Gyokucho make a few saws for 'difficult materials' which would be a good idea for the tough stuff, specifically their "06 super hard" which is as tough as they get. Supposed to be good for any saw cut-able material, including synthetic granite (sinks and benchtop stuff, Corian?).

I think you'll be best served by the rip, cross cut and perhaps the super hard which will take care of anything you've got without too much trouble and won't break the bank either.

For a backed saw, I really like the Gyokucho #372. It's a modified rip dozuki (backed saw), which makes it decent for ripping, decent for cross cutting too whereas most dozuki are super fine cross cut, slow rip or are rip specific and a bit obnoxious cross cutting. Gives good results in all directions, it's specific for dovetails, and intended for all materials so tough too.

I try to keep most of these in stock, but goof on occasion but if I don't have a they're widely available (the #372 is still slow and scarce, but I make sure I've got them all the time) and not far away.

I hope that helps somewhat, and I'm trying to trim down my replies so I'll leave that with you and if there's anything else you need to know, just shout.

Thanks again, and good luck with the decision. I just wish it wasn't one I'd forced you into making.

Stu, toolsfromjapan.com"

As for planes, chisels etc...I've bought a few things from other forum users by going to the 'wanted to buy' section of this site & posting a message with the tools you are after. There are a lot of people that never get around to selling their excess tools, but of asked will sell you an honest, nearly ready to work tool, at a reasonable price.

Just my 2c

Quality always pays in the long run,there are plenty of chisels through markets and e-bay that are old but very good, i have several ive picked up at markets that were $15 and under that are very good , same with planes...im about to go and blow $450 on a LN plane and get a few chisels at $85 each...but ive got by now for 30 years with the ones ive had ,im just taking the next step...the thing is i still have a bunch (and use all the time) of my fathers tools, he couldnt afford expensive stuff, but the quality back then was better, cheap things will only cause grief, and be a pain to use...if you cant go expensive straight up, go the e-bay/market good old gear, they will sharpen up and hold an edge better that the el cheapos

Originally Posted by Da bunny lover

Quality always pays in the long run,there are plenty of chisels through markets and e-bay that are old but very good, i have several ive picked up at markets that were $15 and under that are very good , same with planes...im about to go and blow $450 on a LN plane and get a few chisels at $85 each...but ive got by now for 30 years with the ones ive had ,im just taking the next step...the thing is i still have a bunch (and use all the time) of my fathers tools, he couldnt afford expensive stuff, but the quality back then was better, cheap things will only cause grief, and be a pain to use...if you cant go expensive straight up, go the e-bay/market good old gear, they will sharpen up and hold an edge better that the el cheapos

Did u see the group buy on chisels, planes, etc that's being organized ATM?

I've just ordered a couple of the japanese saws (the email was very helpful) so I've got until they arrive to find everything else.

Originally Posted by Handyjack

A temporary work bench of a board on saw horses is fine but for prolonged work you will probably find that it is too low and you will get a sore back. The other problem is the board will tend to slide on the horses unless it is clamped down.

I have too much stuff (junk) on my own workbench so find I am doing a lot of stuff on a board sitting on top of a pair of saw horses.

Do not be afraid of buying a couple of clamps.

Yeah I have been thinking about that. I think I'll make them a bit higher and maybe drill a couple of holes so I can peg a board to it and avoid having clamps in the way. It won't be particularly stiff but it will do until I get space for a permanent one.

I made some saw horses ~ 900 high. Put a sheet of ply on it or an old door and you have a useful work surface. Admittedly its no good for planing or heavy duty work, but its a useful height and I use the saw horses all the time for other things now I have a bench.

The debate is always that you need a workbench to build a workbench!

Nick

If you use a solid core door on 2 saw horses it is solid enough and has plenty weight. You can plane stuff on that. Will get you by until you get around to a bench
All the advice given by the rest is good. We all started out much the same with only a few tools. Get the tools you need to do the project in hand and in a year or so you will wonder where all the tools came from. By doing it this way you end up with the stuff you need not what you think you want. Well almost as most of us submit to impulse at times.
Regards
John