Thread: Help with Dining Table Build

Rather than having the top rail between the two legs, run it on top of your A-frames that measures about 1 metre so they reach from side to side without really being seen. Screw down through the rail into the legs and up through the rail into the top. Use good screws (we used bugle screws where I used to work) and place your screws so that hit each board, or second board if they're narrow. It's a fairly common design at the moment with steel legs.

You either need to provide some bracing between the top and the legs or effectively increase the width of the mounting area at the top of the leg to provide more support to prevent racking. If the A frame components are joined with loose tenons or Dominoes, as it appears on your drawing, you've got them running the wrong way as there's minimal long grain to long grain surface area in that direction.

Originally Posted by PJM16

Rather than having the top rail between the two legs, run it on top of your A-frames that measures about 1 metre so they reach from side to side without really being seen. Screw down through the rail into the legs and up through the rail into the top. Use good screws (we used bugle screws where I used to work) and place your screws so that hit each board, or second board if they're narrow. It's a fairly common design at the moment with steel legs.

I had considered moving the top rail resting it on top of the legs but didn’t think the extra 200+mm support would make enough of a difference to warrant the change in aesthetics.

I guess I could then also then use a wider top rail (150mm vs 90mm) to help with the bracing.

With anywhere from 11mm -> 22mm of table top movement to be expected I am reluctant to use to many screws to attach the table top.

Originally Posted by aldav

You either need to provide some bracing between the top and the legs or effectively increase the width of the mounting area at the top of the leg to provide more support to prevent racking. If the A frame components are joined with loose tenons or Dominoes, as it appears on your drawing, you've got them running the wrong way as there's minimal long grain to long grain surface area in that direction.

Do you think routing a 12mm channel into the underside of the table top for the top rail to snuggly sit in would help with bracing at all?

I have seen this on other tables but thought it was for aesthetics only.

Perhaps a 150mm top rail with a strider is the way I need to go.

The bottom dominos are drawn face out (3x 10mmx50mm) while the top rail dominos are the same dimensions drawn side on so as to span the full 90mm width of the leg.

You need to stop the table from falling over when pushed from the ends. It is effectively standing on two playing cards in this orientation, though the playing cards are 45mm thick. A steel plate ~1000x250x10 recessed into the underside of the top and heavily bolted down to the A frame would be a start. It will still rack, enough to warrant serious complaint. To reduce racking, you could weld the steel plate to become a T section and bury it into the A frame, or bolt to the inside face of it. Adding gussets to support the weld would be a good idea. The best idea is to talk the clients into having a stretcher rail down low. To keep the top flat, all the way out to the edges, you can use something like C-channel - Canadian Woodworks which can be hidden away inside the top, or bolt timbers rails below the top.

Originally Posted by Kuffy

You need to stop the table from falling over when pushed from the ends. It is effectively standing on two playing cards in this orientation, though the playing cards are 45mm thick. A steel plate ~1000x250x10 recessed into the underside of the top and heavily bolted down to the A frame would be a start. It will still rack, enough to warrant serious complaint. To reduce racking, you could weld the steel plate to become a T section and bury it into the A frame, or bolt to the inside face of it. Adding gussets to support the weld would be a good idea. The best idea is to talk the clients into having a stretcher rail down low. To keep the top flat, all the way out to the edges, you can use something like C-channel - Canadian Woodworks which can be hidden away inside the top, or bolt timbers rails below the top.

Well I cant weld so that isn’t an option. The stretcher seems like the only reasonable approach however now I need to work out the best joinery for that.

The C-Channel looks interesting. How do you hide it away? Any further detail on how to go about installing timber rails?

Thanks Kuffy

Found a good Youtube video by Bent’s Woodworking on the C-Channel


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Originally Posted by Damienol

Hi WWF,

I have my second commission this time for a dinning table build.

The client has asked for an A frame design with a solid 45mm American Oak top (2200x1100)

The have sent me some picks of other tables they like and the things they dont like about them e.g. strider.

The sooner you start telling the client how furniture works well and how it doesn't, and how it costs them for doing dumb ideas the better off things will be .

Like I'd be saying
"This type of design is an old idea but was done with braces for strength . If we don't have them its falling over .
Those braces were always straight timber X braces, sometimes with a lower stretcher, or two S shape steel table irons fitted in an X bracing pattern . If we take that away we have to invent some hidden steel type fittings . That's fine but it's going to add between $1500 and $2000 "

Look for the change in their expression at $2000 being mentioned on top of what could already be a $9000 table .Not including delivery.

The ones that stay talking after that are the clients worth having .

Hey Kuffy, Do you have a supplier of the C-Channel in Australia?

I am in Melbourne, but most steel places will have 50 x 25 C channel. It is hot rolled, and has a forged finish, so you need to give it a wire wheeling and some black paint to pretty it up. you also have to cut your own mounting slots etc etc etc.

Black Channel, C shaped Steel - Handy Steel Stocks

In this application, it will get its strength from the two vertical 25mm wings. If you allow them to fold in on themselves, they become closer and closer to just a standard 5mm flat bar of steel. To stop them from folding in on themselves, just make your router slots be a snug fit.

I don't use it often, and haven't used it for about 3 years now. Mostly my base frames offer good support for the top above, and when there is a fair amount of end overhang, I will breadboard it.

Thank you Kuffy


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I have heard that you can use timber strips instead of C -Channel however I have not been able to find a reliable reference on how to execute this

Originally Posted by Damienol

I have heard that you can use timber strips instead of C -Channel however I have not been able to find a reliable reference on how to execute this

Perhaps they're referring to the use of sliding dovetails to keep the top flat ? That's what I did when I built a couple of desks and it's worked thus far.

That is not the case however I had considered that however the risk of destroying a $1000 table top due to no experience put me off this