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  1. #1
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    Default Help - is this edge banding any good

    Hi. I ordered some large kitchen end-pieces and cover-pieces. These are made of Polytec melamine faced mdf, and have the matching 1mm thick edge banding. They will cover the visible ends or sides of the white melamine cabinets, which will have 2pak sprayed doors.

    The colours are a dark red timber-look and a very dark blue which is almost black.

    The problem is there are visible white lines along the arises. They appear to be the edgebanding glue squeeze-out - clearly fairly soft and occupying the joint between the board and the edgebanding. They are probably well below 1 mm thick but against these colours they are quite noticeable.

    Is this normal ?

    Is it perhaps a case of the operators should have used a dark coloured adhesive but didn’t ?

    I realise that this method of construction is fairly low end, so maybe my expectations are too high. I usually get my doors and end pieces sprayed with 2pack so this is the first time I have ever purchased boards done this way.

    If it’s normal, is there some way to hide the white lines? I don’t think many people would accept it as it is.

    Cheers and thanks
    Arron
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Picture will help, but it's probably the glue

  4. #3
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    Default

    Yes, a picture would help but I can’t get one today.

    In any case, I’m sure it’s a glue line. My question is more ‘is it normal’ and if so, ‘what can be done about it’.

    Cheers
    Arron
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  5. #4
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    Default

    It's probably normal (changing glue colours is a huuuuge pain unless the machine has a quick change glue cartridge system), a dark permanent marker can help cover it up.

  6. #5
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    Default

    Hi Arron,

    I am assuming that you are talking about dress or closing panels that go at the end of a run of cabinets to hide the carcass material used in the run. From previous posts, I get the impression you were going with 2 pack for the doors etc. In my experience, for a job with painted doors etc, any closing panels, spacers etc would use the same materials and finishing techniques as the doors etc, in this case 2 pack.

    My suspicion is that your panels have been edged with 1mm ABS edging with a fairly neutral body colour and a thin coloured or patterned surface layer. Commercial edging machines use wider banding that overhangs the panels while the edging is being applied then route the overhang down to flush with the panel along the glueline. The routers generally use a radius profile bit for this trimming and have adjustments for what would normally be considered to be the cutting depth. Thus, it is possible with machine familiarity to trim the banding to produce anything from a square edge, a slight arris, a gentle radius or a more pronounced radius between the face of the edging and the surface of the panel. With ABS the trimming can leave the core of the edging exposed, giving the impression of a 1mm glueline as you described.

    Again with a commercial edging machine, the banding is applied to the panel with a pressure roller about 150mm diameter with considerable spring pressure behind it, forcing the actual glueline to be extremely thin, but not completely hiding it. If the actual glueline produced was to be a fairly even 1mm thick, there would be a major fault in the feeding of panels into the machine, or the machine itself.

    The other common banding used is PVC which has an even colour through the thickness of the band, and when trimmed produces a consistent colour regardless of trimming profile used in the edger. However PVC banding is only available in a limited range of colours, presumably because of the difficulty or cost of the compatible pigments to tint the mix to match the panel colour. From your description of the colours used for edging, I suspect that ABS would have been the only option available, i.e they would be outside the spectrum available in PVC.

    Based on the above, I suspect that there is not a serious fault with the actual edging application, but that you could probably have been given better advice about the likely outcome when discussing the job with the supplier. Where I used to work, the issue would have been explained to the client and if the client was having difficulty understanding that, we would probably prepare a small sample piece for them from panel offcuts and the matching ABS edging so that they could see what was possible and what was not. Beyond that, the only other approach was to do these in carcass satin and have them painted to obtain matching finish on all exposed surfaces. However that process effectively excludes artificial grain finishes.
    I used to be an engineer, I'm not an engineer any more, but on the really good days I can remember when I was.

  7. #6
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    Ok, thanks for the replies.

    And yep, following Elan’s advice I went out and bought some high quality permanent markers which solved the problem 100%.

    And thanks Malb for the detailed response. It’s always good to understand the processes behind a service which we will be relying on so much over the next two years. And yes, the abs edging was dictated by the choice of wood grain effect - which we choose to counterpoint the monolithic surfaces.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  8. #7
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    Default

    Yep! Markers.

    I have a pack from Amazon of Sharpies in a zillion colours.

    They cover a multitude of sins.

    I learned this trick from luthiers, and perhaps indirectly from a violin maker who was doing a repair on a rather old and highly figured thing. There would have been ZERO way to match the patterning.... so after applying the fix (a patch and split) they used markers to draw in the figure!

    Unless it were pointed out and close inspection done one wouldn't see it.

    I also saw Dan Erlewine of StuMac doing the same thing on a 1960's electric repair and an acoustic.

  9. #8
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    Default Follow up

    I’m placing this here in case anyone else has the same question.

    Due to other commitments, I still hadn’t addressed this issue. The marker pen solution wasn’t cutting it and I didn’t have a way to remove the majority of the squeezeout before starting. So when I was in Trademaster last week I decided to ask their experts the best way to handle the issue. They recommended two products to remove the squeeze out, of which I chose the one with image attached.

    This product works like magic. One or two wipes and the excessive squeezeout is gone. What remains is the thinnest possible glue line. I may use the marker pens on that, or we may just live with it.

    Also, if you use permanent markers, please don’t be a fool like me - try it in an inconspicuous place first. Some of our problem pieces are ordinary laminex which are not a problem, but others are Polytec Venette - their new fingerprint-proof technology. Venette does indeed resist fingerprints but unfortunately many other substances can affect it - badly. Do not use permanent markers on it, they stain the surface in an ugly manner and will not come off no matter what you try.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  10. #9
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    I think I misunderstood the original issue; I was thinking you meant the glue line itself was the problem, not that is was squeezeout that hadn't been fully removed. We always used turps for that.

    Also, pic not showing.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arron View Post
    I’m placing this here in case anyone else has the same question.

    Due to other commitments, I still hadn’t addressed this issue. The marker pen solution wasn’t cutting it and I didn’t have a way to remove the majority of the squeezeout before starting. So when I was in Trademaster last week I decided to ask their experts the best way to handle the issue. They recommended two products to remove the squeeze out, of which I chose the one with image attached.

    This product works like magic. One or two wipes and the excessive squeezeout is gone. What remains is the thinnest possible glue line. I may use the marker pens on that, or we may just live with it.

    Also, if you use permanent markers, please don’t be a fool like me - try it in an inconspicuous place first. Some of our problem pieces are ordinary laminex which are not a problem, but others are Polytec Venette - their new fingerprint-proof technology. Venette does indeed resist fingerprints but unfortunately many other substances can affect it - badly. Do not use permanent markers on it, they stain the surface in an ugly manner and will not come off no matter what you try.
    theres no pic, of the product... or the issue

  12. #11
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    Default

    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

  13. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by elanjacobs View Post
    I think I misunderstood the original issue; I was thinking you meant the glue line itself was the problem, not that is was squeezeout that hadn't been fully removed. We always used turps for that.

    Also, pic not showing.
    Both, to remove any squeezeout and to reduce the glue-line to its thinnest possible and hence least visible state.
    Apologies for unnoticed autocomplete errors.

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