Thread: Is illegal to have a hobby shop at home

Hi Section1,
I think any problems you could have would be decided by the agent I have rented for many years and haven't had any problems with owner's or agent's but having said that it will depend on the way in which you present the situation if as it sounds you're workshop is tidy and they can see you appreciate the residence and look after it hopefully you should not have a problem. The only other time a problem will arise is when you get a complaint to the council about the noise of tools and machinery, a friend of mine had a home workshop in his garage in Tweed Heads area and this happened to him the council sent an officer to see him to discuss if there were way's he could reduce his noise levels made a few suggestions to help with that and to determine that it was as stated a hobby. There were no further problem's. Hopefully you won't even have to do that.
Regards Rod.

Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot

This is one of the problems trying to get insurance for tools as part of the general home and contents policy. Its hard to explain that you have thousands - possibly pushing 10's of thousands, of tools just for personal enjoyment.

I'm with QBE. They have given me an email address to send a spreadsheet to and they insure it all without problems. If I make a change I just send a new sheet. I've added 30k and I think it costs me an extra $6 a month or something. They get all the serial numbers and expect me to keep receipts which I do anyway....

On the point of cost, I'd imagine there are much more expensive sports. Even if it were 20 or 30 grand, compare this to the cost of sky diving, motor racing, stamp collecting!, or my mother in law reading thousands of mummy #### trash novels at $8 a pop (not kidding, I just moved 1300 of this classless rubbish this weekend)

... Or even the depreciation on a new car.

Are we mad? No. We obtain deep personal satisfaction and people genuinely love the end product. One hang up though, which is ageless, we are never paid like lawyers, bankers or doctors.

Originally Posted by Evanism

Are we mad? No. We obtain deep personal satisfaction and people genuinely love the end product. One hang up though, which is ageless, we are never paid like lawyers, bankers or doctors.

Some of us - not me - *are* lawyers, bankers or doctors.

Good to have info on how your insurer handles things.



Oh yeah. And some of us are mad too.

Goodg Morning Section 1

We have rental properties, and it is worth considering your situation from the property owners perspective.

Landlords are paranoid about getting good tenants and protecting their property. The vast majority of tenants are good, 98% ?, but when you get a bad one it is an absolute pain - damage, lost rent, aggro, legal fees, and you always have the bank breathing down you neck. Almost all landlords try very hard to retain good tenants. When I inspect a property I want to see that it is being looked after like my home - clean, damage free, inviting...

Over the years I have had only three significant cases of damage by tenants:

• Fire caused by wood BBQ against weatherboard wall- about $3,000,
• Carpets saturated with artists oil paint - similar cost, and
• Tenants stole a free standing weatherboard garage - $10,000.

In each case my loss was covered by insurance. In the latter case the insurance co took legal action against the tenant, case failed because they could not prove that the garage erected on their new place was mine, but costs bankrupted the bastard.

I would not worry about someone using a garage as a workshop provided they were looking after the place well. In fact, their commitment would be a bonus. More likely to stay longer. (Most tenants stay less than 2 years)

But if you were not a good tenant then you would probably be breaking the lease agreement - if the garage is described in the lease agreement as a garage, then this is clearly not a workshop. I would be very concerned about the unauthorized use of my property, the breach of contract, the increased risks of damage to my place, the annoyance to the neighbors, whether your improper activities were adequately covered by my insurance, and so on. Anything to get rid of a bad tenant as expeditiously as possible.

None of this would apply to a good tenant.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Graeme's spot on. I've rented twice and helped mates clean up their properties after bad tenants and learned this.

Landlords are most interested in tenants who just take care of the property. If you look after if like your own, no one will care about a well set up workshop. After all it's better than finding a meth lab set up in the garage.

Both times I rented I left the property in a better state than I found it. Every time there was an inspection the agent wandered in, saw a spotlessly clean house and walked straight back out.

Danny

I've been both a tenant and a landlord, and agree with all these comments. As long as you're a good tenant and take care of the place, as a landlord I want to keep you as long as possible. So I think you'll be fine...

Seek permission.
As a landlord, I object to tenants taking it upon themselves to use a property as they see fit.
The landlord has an obligation to insure the property and this insurance can vary policy to policy and company to company. All companies have the facility to streamline policies to suit
A friend owned a rental property with an excellent tenant who took it upon himself to convert the double garage to a workshop as he didn't own a car. No problem.....until recently the house burned down! Investigators found the fire to have started in the garage, fueled by wood waste on floor. Ignition unknown. Insurance Co say not covered for a workshop. Matter continues. Going to get costly. A simple clause in lease agreements we use, "Property to be used as specified (residential.) All variances to be negotiated in writing." With this clause I am able to negotiate with the tenant, make any necessary insurance changes and not be the last to know what is going on. As already said, a good tenant is worth keeping.

The above case seems to me that it must have extenuating circumstances. To do a hobby at ones home rented or owned would be a far stretch IMHO to say it is being used outside the realms of a residential property.

As far as income these are some figures I've heard from others and would need to be clarified

1) any income generated by a hobby under $4000 the tax man is not interested in

2) a hobby can generate an income of up to $20,000 before it is no longer considered a hobby

As far as noise that may differ from council / shire to council / shire. Here a hobby can make noise upto 8pm at night. Reasonableness obviously comes into play.

Again. Times and figures are just what I have heard from others and I have not confirmed these.

So long as you are not damaging the property or putting it at risk I can't see an issue.

Originally Posted by DaveTTC

The above case seems to me that it must have extenuating circumstances. To do a hobby at ones home rented or owned would be a far stretch IMHO to say it is being used outside the realms of a residential property.

As far as income these are some figures I've heard from others and would need to be clarified

1) any income generated by a hobby under $4000 the tax man is not interested in

2) a hobby can generate an income of up to $20,000 before it is no longer considered a hobby

As far as noise that may differ from council / shire to council / shire. Here a hobby can make noise upto 8pm at night. Reasonableness obviously comes into play.

Again. Times and figures are just what I have heard from others and I have not confirmed these.

So long as you are not damaging the property or putting it at risk I can't see an issue.

Dave, there are no extenuating circumstances that I know off. As far as I know, the owner had no idea there was anything out of the ordinary, until the joint burned down. It would be a different matter if insurance was the responsibility of the tenant, not that I'm suggesting it should be, then the tenant would be responsible for what happens and would be smart to have cover. This is not the case. The owner carries the insurance on his asset and rightly so. If the property is a residence it is insured accordingly. If there are any extenuating circumstances or variances required by the tenant, they should be negotiated. The tenant purchases the right to reside in the property, anything else would be negotiable. To take it upon oneself to make the executive decision is asking for trouble. It's the old story .....Nothing's a problem until there is a problem.

As for weather the tenant was making money or not, was meeting Council requirements or not, are not an issue in this case. The issue is the house has gone and the insurance didn't cover the use of the garage as a workshop.
This could have been overcome by changing the policy. Communication often saves a situation.

I am a good tenant the last place I rented was for 11 years and got every dollar back of my bond, the real estate agents said the place was left immaculate and were welcome back anytime, this place I've been in for two years. My motto is look after the place you were entrusted in.

Originally Posted by section1

I am a good tenant the last place I rented was for 11 years and got every dollar back of my bond, the real estate agents said the place was left immaculate and were welcome back anytime, this place I've been in for two years. My motto is look after the place you were entrusted in.

Excellent, Section1, but lets try to keep it that way.

On and rental property there should be two lots of insurance:

• the owner should insure the buildings and also against public liability, and
• you should insure the contents that you own including your tool, equipment and stock.

In the instance where a building has been repurposed from a garage to a workshop it is quite possible that it is no longer covered by the insurance as the risk profile has changed. It depends on the wording of the policy and the whim of the assessor. The insurance company could then legallistically deny liability - they well know the costs to you of mounting a legal challenge and their pockets are very deep. Always assume insurance companies are bastards!

It is always easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Perhaps you could mention it to your landlord and respectfully suggest that he verify that your workshop has not adversely affected his insurance. Show genuine concern for his financial welfare. A small gift - small box or cutting board or whatever ? might help lubricate things.

It is always better to avoid problems before they happen.



Fair Winds

Graeme

I can't see it being a risk since I barely use power tools if but once a month and that's the bandsaw for resawing those machines just sit there everything is hand tools unless I burst into flames how in the world can I pose a risk.

The garage is always kept spotless Dabbler saw it no one can believe I even do any work in it but I vacuum after every use and besides mostly are just shavings.

We've all charged into this thread - me included - without thinking of the obvious. Your first port of call should be the RTA (Residential Tenancy Authority for non-Qlders). Hit their website and maybe spend time on the phone Monday. This type of situation (uncertainty) is exactly why they exist.

They should be able to tell you if your lease agreement is varied or standard.

The more I think about it, everything else here is kind of irrelevant.