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6th July 2020, 02:50 PM #31SENIOR MEMBER
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Clear Out, yes Anagote is down the street from me, but that end of the street is industrial. (As an aside, from the perspective of timber supply, it's great having Anagote in the same street.) We are at the residential end of that street. Our central building (the one with the ceramics studio downstairs) was a bakery from 1885 till 1955. Then it was used to print short run ethnic newspapers and then it was a place that made foundry molds. For the last 20 years, it has been a ceramics studio. The building has had continuous commercial use since 1885, but it's in an area zoned residential. Applying for a spot zoning dispensation based on continuous commercial use would I suspect open a can of worms.
Of course, the council know it is a ceramics studio because every year it is part of an Open Studio tour arranged by the council where various artist spaces are open for people to have a stickybeak. But the people in the council who organise that sort of stuff are not the people involved in planning.
Ian, thanks again for your thoughts. I like the term 'well resourced personal hobby' and yes charging like minded people to hang around and do stuff will open me up to potential council grief. I'm torn between wanting to chat with the council about it vs pressing on and accepting the fact that they may make me close down the commercial side when they get wind of it. Our local council are pretty encouraging with this sort of thing, but my venture might make be a bridge too far. Maybe I'll call it a club? I'll find someone on council who I can have an informal chat with.
Re: Airbnb. Like all major STRA (Short Term Rental Accomodation) cities, Sydney has had problems. State governments here have taken a few different paths in regulating but not stopping STRA. They removed STRA from the Residential Tenancies Act so they could treat it differently. The main thing that prompted much of the disquiet is STRA in strata apartments where the owners do not live in the apartment and 'party houses' in holiday towns. Because we live in a building at the property where the Airbnbs are, we're okay.
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6th July 2020 02:50 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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6th July 2020, 10:23 PM #32
Just out of interest.
Foundry moulds or the patterns from which to form the moulds.
Were they melting metal on site?
It was probably a Patternshop.
Basically a woodwork operation.
Rodney might know, he moved from Annandale about that long ago.
H.Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)
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7th July 2020, 12:34 PM #33SENIOR MEMBER
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- Mar 2009
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- Sydney
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It would have been the patterns. The business that was doing it disappeared some years before we bought the property. Their mail was still coming for years, which is how I worked out what they did.
I lived around the corned from Anagote in Annandale. Odd that I now again live in walking distance to them. There is development pressure on that site down the road, so one day they will take the money and run. Pity.
I will have an answer on insurance soon that I will share with everyone.
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9th July 2020, 10:37 AM #34
Scott,
Quick brain f over breakfast. Just typed this out over porridge so a bit disjointed.
The NSW Woodworkers Association has a fully equipped workshop for members use.
Im not still a member so this next is a guess.
I assume they are using the insurance for their members through The Victorian Woodworkers Association.
They have arranged a deal thru a broker where similar organisations in Oz can access affordable insurance.
You should chase the Victorians up as they may cover individual workshops
I used to hold the Sydney Tool Sale and Swap and to insure the building I was holding it in I would transfer the insurance from my workshop for the weekend it was on.
After I ceased full time operation of my business I would just get insurance for the weekend thru my broker but this was very expensive. After 9/11 it wasn’t viable as insurance became stupid.
The Traditional Tools Group collectors club (which I started) has taken over the tool sale and they require all sellers to join the club or show proof of their own insurance. They are covered by the Vic scheme.
I don’t know the details of the Victorian scheme, individual cover might be available or possibly you could have a small club and access the Vic insurance that way.
H.Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)
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9th July 2020, 10:42 AM #35
Google VWA Insurance.
QBE is their underwriter.
You can ignore the earlier post ,as I said I just started typing, should’ve hit google.
H.Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)
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9th July 2020, 10:48 AM #36SENIOR MEMBER
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- Mar 2009
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- Sydney
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Thanks Clear Out,
Yes, I have been in touch with the Vic WWA - that was suggested by a bloke I know who is involved in NSW WWA.
The Vic WWA have liability cover that is very reasonable. It covers someone running classes at home or other places.
My situation is a bit different, so I have been having an email chat with their underwriters who said they will be able to help out. I have been very frank with what I would like to do and they are mulling it over. When they get back to me, I will share all.
If I end up with 3-4 reasonably experienced people using the shed e.g. Sturt graduates or people have done local courses, I may make them all get their own insurance. The cost of them doing that through the VIC WWA would be reasonable.
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9th July 2020, 11:10 AM #37New Member
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10th July 2020, 10:41 AM #38SENIOR MEMBER
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- Sydney
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- 518
Yes, Meg was very helpful. I am now at the next stage - talking to their underwriters - because the insurance I want doesn't fit a particular box. I'll see how I go and might get in touch with Rob if needed and find out how I might become a Club.
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10th July 2020, 11:02 AM #39
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10th July 2020, 11:28 AM #40SENIOR MEMBER
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10th July 2020, 03:45 PM #41
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24th July 2020, 04:51 PM #42SENIOR MEMBER
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I'm still working on the insurance.
I've been emailing a very helpful bloke at City Rural Brokers - the contact given to me by the Vic WW people. He in turn has been talking to insurers.
I suspect I don't fit a specific box which makes it hard for them. I wrote a very specific description for them to work with. This was the gist of it:
'I have a building in my backyard that I want to turn into a share shed for woodworkers. I will supply the space, tools and machines. Down the track, I may do classes but that is not my intention for now. The shed will be for people who have a project but no tools or space to come and work on that project. Those people will pay an hourly or daily fee to hang around and use the hand tools and machines – when I am comfortable with them doing so. My main insurance requirement is cover if someone does something stupid like chopping off a finger.'
I was quizzed on the building - it's sound.
And the electrics - recently rewired.
And the expected revenue - minimal.
They offered to include insurance to cover the damage or loss of tools and machines, which I agreed to.
The first quote that came back was for $930 per year, but just covered me doing classes. I gently explained that as I said this was not really the plan. and that I was more concerned about injury to casual users.
The next quote that came back was for $1,800 and had me in the 'equipment hire' box, which sort of made some sense. So people would essentially need to sign a hire agreement to use the equipment. That's okay. But under equipment, it only had 'hand tools'. Sigh.
I responded and reiterated the fact that my major concern was people using machines, not a chisel. I also asked what difference there would be if I removed the insurance of the machines from the policy given my real aim is to be covered for injury.
They'll get back to me next week.
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27th July 2020, 11:59 AM #43SENIOR MEMBER
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- Mar 2009
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- Sydney
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Okay, so they got back to me.
I'm still in the 'equipment hire' box, which is fine. People would sign a waiver/hire agreement to use the tools and machines.
And it is now tools AND machines - originally it was just hand tools tools. I'm not all that concerned about theft or damage - there would be an excess anyway - so I got them to delete that bit for now.
The insurance quote for liability that covers casual users coming in and using my tools and machines came in at $1,500 per year. I reckon that's pretty good.
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29th July 2020, 05:26 PM #44GOLD MEMBER
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- Aug 2011
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- bilpin
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Don't think for one moment Insurance will solve your problems. By the shear nature of your proposed business you are placing yourself directly in harms way. I made my shed available to locals under a waiver agreement for many years. Structured correctly, it was legal to do so back then. Now no longer the case.
If you are able to obtain insurance to the extent you could be considered safe, it would cost far more than the exercise is worth. Particularly at your modest $50/person.
Insurance doesn't stop anybody being dragged through the Courts, or those doing the dragging. It just means that they probably will have some idea where the payout will come from.
Now add the fact that you own the property concerned and we have even more incentive to slap a writ on you.
Why would you want to place yourself at the "mercy" of an Insurance Company or the Public in a time when litigation has become the normal way of life?
Remember, you can never insure away a duty of care.
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29th July 2020, 05:29 PM #45SENIOR MEMBER
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- Mar 2009
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I have solved the insurance issue, but I'm curious about the 'structure' you mention that was legal but no longer is. What can you tell me?
Oh, and I have no intention of 'insuring away a duty of care.'
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