Thread: I'm thinking about starting a share shed in Sydney's inner west

Just out of interest.
Foundry moulds or the patterns from which to form the moulds.
Were they melting metal on site?
It was probably a Patternshop.
Basically a woodwork operation.
Rodney might know, he moved from Annandale about that long ago.
H.

It would have been the patterns. The business that was doing it disappeared some years before we bought the property. Their mail was still coming for years, which is how I worked out what they did.
I lived around the corned from Anagote in Annandale. Odd that I now again live in walking distance to them. There is development pressure on that site down the road, so one day they will take the money and run. Pity.

I will have an answer on insurance soon that I will share with everyone.

Scott,
Quick brain f over breakfast. Just typed this out over porridge so a bit disjointed.
The NSW Woodworkers Association has a fully equipped workshop for members use.
Im not still a member so this next is a guess.
I assume they are using the insurance for their members through The Victorian Woodworkers Association.
They have arranged a deal thru a broker where similar organisations in Oz can access affordable insurance.
You should chase the Victorians up as they may cover individual workshops

I used to hold the Sydney Tool Sale and Swap and to insure the building I was holding it in I would transfer the insurance from my workshop for the weekend it was on.
After I ceased full time operation of my business I would just get insurance for the weekend thru my broker but this was very expensive. After 9/11 it wasn’t viable as insurance became stupid.
The Traditional Tools Group collectors club (which I started) has taken over the tool sale and they require all sellers to join the club or show proof of their own insurance. They are covered by the Vic scheme.

I don’t know the details of the Victorian scheme, individual cover might be available or possibly you could have a small club and access the Vic insurance that way.
H.

Google VWA Insurance.
QBE is their underwriter.
You can ignore the earlier post ,as I said I just started typing, should’ve hit google.
H.

Thanks Clear Out,
Yes, I have been in touch with the Vic WWA - that was suggested by a bloke I know who is involved in NSW WWA.
The Vic WWA have liability cover that is very reasonable. It covers someone running classes at home or other places.
My situation is a bit different, so I have been having an email chat with their underwriters who said they will be able to help out. I have been very frank with what I would like to do and they are mulling it over. When they get back to me, I will share all.
If I end up with 3-4 reasonably experienced people using the shed e.g. Sturt graduates or people have done local courses, I may make them all get their own insurance. The cost of them doing that through the VIC WWA would be reasonable.

Originally Posted by clear out

Scott,
Quick brain f over breakfast. Just typed this out over porridge so a bit disjointed.
The NSW Woodworkers Association has a fully equipped workshop for members use.
Im not still a member so this next is a guess.
I assume they are using the insurance for their members through The Victorian Woodworkers Association.
They have arranged a deal thru a broker where similar organisations in Oz can access affordable insurance.
You should chase the Victorians up as they may cover individual workshops

I used to hold the Sydney Tool Sale and Swap and to insure the building I was holding it in I would transfer the insurance from my workshop for the weekend it was on.
After I ceased full time operation of my business I would just get insurance for the weekend thru my broker but this was very expensive. After 9/11 it wasn’t viable as insurance became stupid.
The Traditional Tools Group collectors club (which I started) has taken over the tool sale and they require all sellers to join the club or show proof of their own insurance. They are covered by the Vic scheme.

I don’t know the details of the Victorian scheme, individual cover might be available or possibly you could have a small club and access the Vic insurance that way.
H.

G'day, I'm a woodworker down here in VIC.

Meg Allan does insurance for individual MEMBERS via VWA

http://www.vwa.org.au/

whereas her husband Rob Allan does CLUB insurance via CWC

https://www.councilwoodworkclubs.org/

Hope that helps you with your research.

Gary

Yes, Meg was very helpful. I am now at the next stage - talking to their underwriters - because the insurance I want doesn't fit a particular box. I'll see how I go and might get in touch with Rob if needed and find out how I might become a Club.

Originally Posted by scottbr

I'll see how I go ... and find out how I might become a Club.

In NSW, clubs are usually registered as "Asssociations" and require a minimum of five members.

Originally Posted by ian

In NSW, clubs are usually registered as "Asssociations" and require a minimum of five members.

I'm sure you'll join, Ian. Sure you seem to be in Canada so might not drop by often, but that's okay.

Originally Posted by scottbr

I'm sure you'll join, Ian. Sure you seem to be in Canada so might not drop by often, but that's okay.

You can enroll me as prospective member #13 -- 13 is both prime and part of the Fibonacci sequence, an auspicious circumstance.

I'm still working on the insurance.
I've been emailing a very helpful bloke at City Rural Brokers - the contact given to me by the Vic WW people. He in turn has been talking to insurers.
I suspect I don't fit a specific box which makes it hard for them. I wrote a very specific description for them to work with. This was the gist of it:

'I have a building in my backyard that I want to turn into a share shed for woodworkers. I will supply the space, tools and machines. Down the track, I may do classes but that is not my intention for now. The shed will be for people who have a project but no tools or space to come and work on that project. Those people will pay an hourly or daily fee to hang around and use the hand tools and machines – when I am comfortable with them doing so. My main insurance requirement is cover if someone does something stupid like chopping off a finger.'

I was quizzed on the building - it's sound.
And the electrics - recently rewired.
And the expected revenue - minimal.
They offered to include insurance to cover the damage or loss of tools and machines, which I agreed to.

The first quote that came back was for $930 per year, but just covered me doing classes. I gently explained that as I said this was not really the plan. and that I was more concerned about injury to casual users.
The next quote that came back was for $1,800 and had me in the 'equipment hire' box, which sort of made some sense. So people would essentially need to sign a hire agreement to use the equipment. That's okay. But under equipment, it only had 'hand tools'. Sigh.

I responded and reiterated the fact that my major concern was people using machines, not a chisel. I also asked what difference there would be if I removed the insurance of the machines from the policy given my real aim is to be covered for injury.

They'll get back to me next week.

Okay, so they got back to me.
I'm still in the 'equipment hire' box, which is fine. People would sign a waiver/hire agreement to use the tools and machines.
And it is now tools AND machines - originally it was just hand tools tools. I'm not all that concerned about theft or damage - there would be an excess anyway - so I got them to delete that bit for now.
The insurance quote for liability that covers casual users coming in and using my tools and machines came in at $1,500 per year. I reckon that's pretty good.

Don't think for one moment Insurance will solve your problems. By the shear nature of your proposed business you are placing yourself directly in harms way. I made my shed available to locals under a waiver agreement for many years. Structured correctly, it was legal to do so back then. Now no longer the case.
If you are able to obtain insurance to the extent you could be considered safe, it would cost far more than the exercise is worth. Particularly at your modest $50/person.
Insurance doesn't stop anybody being dragged through the Courts, or those doing the dragging. It just means that they probably will have some idea where the payout will come from.
Now add the fact that you own the property concerned and we have even more incentive to slap a writ on you.
Why would you want to place yourself at the "mercy" of an Insurance Company or the Public in a time when litigation has become the normal way of life?
Remember, you can never insure away a duty of care.

I have solved the insurance issue, but I'm curious about the 'structure' you mention that was legal but no longer is. What can you tell me?
Oh, and I have no intention of 'insuring away a duty of care.'