Thread: I'm thinking about starting a share shed in Sydney's inner west

I’m subscribing to this thread as I am perusing a similar idea in my workspace at Somersby.

Not sure if I am teaching you to suck eggs or not here so I will keep it brief.

Try building a cost model. This will help crystallize all the things you need to acquire for you business to function and make you seek out the costs of these items.
Out of that model you should be able to determine the cost per student required to cover all the costs involved over a range of possible student numbers for a financial year.
It will also give you an idea of the margins you need in your pricing to meet a range of investment returns.

The red and green tape required for your endeavor needs to be worked through carefully with appropriate advice as it is a very early no go point for your business plan.

Finally, Good Luck and I hope that you are successful.

I’ve a slightly larger shed at 12 x 18 metres and had people share with me from on and off since 1986.
Its double brick 12’ to the rafters, 3 phase, dunny and basin, off street parking/unloading area, outside roofed timber rack with about 5 m of stuff.plus pallet racking and a mezzanine inside for stuff.
Often ended badly and we parted not as friends.
Probably my fault as I’m inclined to be easy going and like to get on with people so I wasn’t assertive enough and let things slide and when they became a problem it all goes to S.
You need to be very clear about $ and what stuff they can bring into your shed.
Unless it’s in a full industrial location noise and hours of operation matter.
Probably worked best when there were three of us into full on furniture making plus whatever else we were asked to make. Patternmaker, boatbuilder,CSA graduates, highly skilled, competent, no amateurs.
The dollars can end up being the main problem, most people are tight and will be happy to use your expensive equipment but turn pale when asked to put their hand in their pocket re the replacement and sharpening of blades etc. Let alone any of their time in maintainance and cleaning up.
I’m now on my own and have moved the majority of my wood kit into a 3 x 10 annex.
The main space has a few dead cars and a full compliment of metal gear, including welding and panel forming gear. And about 10 dead machines to be moved on.
Id love to have people come and be company do their own thing but can’t see it working out.
Most people have so much stuff and need somewhere to park it, once it’s safe in your shed they forget about it and get on with their lives, dropping a ladder on a car helps move it on after it been dead for a few years in you space. I didn’t do this the previous sucker did and said car was then abandoned on me.
I have had a few student TAS teachers do their internship with me over the past couple of years and one was great to have, we even got the big Wadkin lathe going and she did some metal spinning.
The other just wanted to do an easy you tube end product to get him thru the course, no drawing no planning no idea. But he did help me get my water tank up on the stand plus a few other jobs needing two.
They were of course fully insured by the ACU.
Good luck
H.

I’d meant to mention dust extraction but got a rave going instead.
Read up on efficient extraction, Bobs posts of course and plan and cost this now.
Probably a cyclone and outside.
Noise to neighbours?
H.

Clearout raises some important issues, and while it's not the same type of operation the number a variety of personality clashes I saw and experienced at Mens Sheds does have some relevance. Most members are fine but of the few who caused most of the problems could use a personality transplant. I gave it 4 years in two different sheds before I decided it would be easier on my psyche to operate in my own shed.

Originally Posted by scottbr

. . . . and surround myself with like minded people.

I'm not sure that people who require paid access to a shared workshop are going to fit that requirement. If they are going to be like minded to yourself they would have most likely positioned themselves and placed priorities on setting up their own workshop.

To find these people you may be better off joining a wood working club or association. I tried that as well but eventually lost interest but could see it working really well for some members.

I agree with Bob re men’s sheds and woodworking clubs.
I joined the Sydney based NSW Woodworkers Group (as it was then called) back in 1980 from memory.
It was thru it I met about 30 very enthusiastic people who were into woodwork as a result of FineWoodworking magazine etc.
We had a few major exhibitions here in Sydney including the Martime museum and opera house and the comradeship and fraternity was great.
Morphed onto a few gigs like the Ena Steam yacht resto and the new Parliament House work.
Times move on and it’s now a glorified men’s shed with an incredible workshop.
I regularly travel in Canada and the US and get my kicks working with dudes I’ve met along the way.
Did help organise the collaborative stuff here after attending Emma in 2000 but switched off wood back to cars/bikes metal shortly after.
So I’m now a grumpy old fart who’s out of touch with woodies here in Oz except for a few crazy projects on the go here in Concord.
H.

Why not just rent the place out?

Bloody AirBnB is a societal curse. A death to it..... but, that space would be useful to some new small business wanting to get a start.

Why not simply divide the place into four sections, write up a charter of some kind that all must abide by.... and leave it at that.

I say this as I'm now without a studio. My previous one was small at 5x5. Finding a new one here (Canberra) has proven challenging. I put an Ad out on Gumtree asking for a space exactly like this thread proposes. Safe from the public, secure for my gear, no BS, no fackery, no dicking me around, a straight-up deal.... all I received were BS responses from utterly clueless people wanting to charge me industrial prices for their garages.

i.e. AirBnB desperadoes intent on screwing the last breathing cent from an essentially desiccated and nutrient starved asset.

It was insane.

I'd also mention insurance. It comes up all the time talking with other small business owners. The others here are right to say that you'll experience imbeciles determined to maim themselves and blame others.

Thanks for all the responses. I'm back in the office and will address all of your thoughts later this morning in a longer post.
It's good to hear the perspectives of people who have either gone down this path or thought about it.
Poundy, apologies for misinterpreting your comment.

I don't get the negativity when new proposals such as this are put forward. Every time I have started a new business people have advised me not to do it with doom and gloom and every time that business has been a success not necessarily earning a million dollars but successful at achieving what it was meant to. How many times does the OP need to say that he already has insurance for a similar venture in place and experience in getting that insurance.

I did sound rather negative, didn't I. Sincere apologies - I get excitable sometimes

There are schools or tutors in the UK and USA that I think are exceptional. A school would be brilliant.

I think of the courses held by Andrew Crawford (SmartBoxMaker • Instagram) and a looonnnggg list here: Woodworking Schools Directory - FineWoodworking

I've spoken with a few people here about tool libraries, but they seem very hard to get right. Tragedy Of The Commons is all too common, but businesses like Kennards Hire seem to make a fair go at it (but, forsooth, bigger tools!)

A place to just go and Do Things, Im reminded of the various mens sheds, or even the ACT Woodcraft Guild, which seems to be the very model of community-involvement success.


Enough from us often-posters! What of the lurkers and watchers? What say you'se?

Hope you can get this off the ground, Scott. There must be a lot of potential customers living in apartments or in "shedless houses". But all new enterprizes are hard to start.

Another issue not yet mentioned is the dreaded council. If you area is zoned "residential" they might take a dim view of a commercial workshop while simultaneously encouraging a home workshop. It all depends on definitions. Have you talked to them?

Okay, here we go:
First up, to put this in perspective. I would not contemplate renting commercial premises with a view to setting up this sort of thing - whatever it ends up being. I am fortunate to have a 65sqm building in backyard that I want to turn into something I can use (it's time) and that can possibly bring in some money to replace the Airbnb rent forfeited. If I end up fitting it out and it's just me rattling around in there, it's not the end of the world, but I would like some company.

- Bernmc, I will be up in the Taree area later this year so might check out that place and see if can talk to the bloke who runs it. Completely different scale, of course.
- Glider, solvency isn't so much the issue. And I don't have the skills or experience to run a wood work school for adults. There are three people in my suburb doing that and I will steer people to them if they want to learn properly. I would however, a few years down the track contemplate doing something with teenagers.
- Justonething, we have a Pty Ltd company set up already. My wife runs her ceramics studio through it. It would not be a problem for her company to rent this space from us. Yes, that is only part of the solution. She has insurance, but the possibilities of injury are less with ceramics. (We have an old bakery and my wife's operation is called The Bakehouse Studio Bakehouse Studio Marrickville My place would be The Bakehouse Shed.)
- Lappa, Mens Sheds have access to insurance etc that others don't.
- Riverbuilder, this thread will either inspire or scare you.
- Mrslow, I don't see these potential shed people as 'students', more as co-inhabitants.
- Clear out, that's a whole other level to me. Must have been some interesting times. You probably knew my brother-in-law Richard who lived in Concord for a long time. You would have got on well. And yes, I have been reading up on dust (thanks BobL).
- Wood pixel, I don't want to just 'rent the place out'. That's what I've been doing up till now, albeit as residential.
- GraemeCook, no I haven't talked to council. It wouldn't fly with them so there wouldn't be much point. Neighbours aren't really a problem and I can scale it back if need be.

If I had 6 people all paying $50 per week to use the place when they want (max 4 at a time) that would do. So I have modest aims.
There are also the 'graduates' of the three local wood schools. People go to those places to do an introductory course, then another course. Then another. When they are finished, if space permits they can hang around and do their own stuff. But space often doesn't permit - those blokes all pay commercial rents and have great equipment and classes are where the money is. My set-up would be perfect for people who have done those classes and want a space to go and make stuff.
Another possibility is recent graduates from the Sturt School south of Sydney. People come out of there and can't afford to open their own place. Maybe my space could be somewhere they could work for 6 months at a non-commercial rent while they get on their feet?

- - - Updated - - -

Do you know what your council rating is exactly.
Mine in sunny recently trendy Concord is light industrial.
I bought it in 1986 from a mob employing 15 on site and when their business boomed with the coke fuelled increase in burglary they wanted to expand and the council said go away.
They made security doors etc.
Yours might have similar rating as it was a bakery and if Rodney at Annagote is just down the road he sure must be.
H.

Hi Scott
from what I can see on-line, your wife's ceramic business is skating the often thin grey line between what is and what isn't a home based business. Your wife's business has "clients" but no "employees" -- she offers a ceramics firing "service" which implies that only she operates the kiln.
However, your proposed commercial woodworking shed would be well on the wrong side of that line.
I won't go into whether your current $15,000 P.A. (net) Airbnb operation is "legal", in terms of complying with the land use zoning, or not. That's another very very grey area.


If your proposed "Old Bakehouse Shed" could be classed as a "well resourced personal hobby" it would, of course, be subject to the normal noise restrictions but not be an outright prohibited use. Users paying $50 per session to use the shed's facilities would be another kettle of fish entirely.


Building a business plan around a "well resourced personal hobby" could be tricky but would not be impossible.
Building a business plan around a commercial operation in a residential area would, at a minimum, require an application for a proposed change of use but could still be a complete non-starter.


For what it's worth, can I suggest you aim to establish a "well resourced personal hobby" that you perhaps aim to share with other like minded folks.