Thread: Impact Driving of Very Old Floor Nails

Originally Posted by BobL

Can your impact driver be set for a single punch?

If not I can see in my mind a heap of little dimples in the floor scattered around each nail head.

No, it cannot deliver a single punch, and I think a single punch would be too feable to be of any use.

Baz's argument was that modern pile drivers deliver lots of little blows as does an impact driver, and these little blows cumulatively would make the nails "glide in". He said modern pile drivers give much more precision than the old style thumpers.

My fear was as expressed by yourself - control - keeping the punch on the nail head - not leave lots of little dimples, or worse.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by son_of_bluegras

A standard slide hammer is a weight (the hammer) on a section of round rod. The ones I've used were specific for driving (and removing) electrical grounding (earthing?) rod and would screw onto a section of the grounding rod, which was then hammered in and another section was screwed on until the correct depth was driven. They are also used in auto repair and a quick search yielded http://www.harborfreight.com/15-piec...-set-5469.html which is an auto repair version from a store known for low quality (you probably have something similar there filled with use-once-then-toss tools).
With a weight that would slide on a rod, it would be simple enough to shape the end into a punch and fashion an appropriate stop for the hammer to drive against. This would allow for a several pound hammer to drive the nails very accurately.

Does this clear things up?

ron

Thanks Ron.

Have used something like that in reverse for driving star-picket fence posts - weighted tube with handles that fits over the post and you whack them into the ground - quite precise - fences must be strait.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Hi Graeme

I've just punched out about 3000 nails from cypress flooring on 60 year old hardwood joists with a Nail Kicker:
http://nailkicker.com/

It's a magnificent thing and there are different size heads for it (you can order it with any size you like and get other sizes as extras). Now the thing is that it has three settings for depth: about 3mm below surface (which is what you want, about 9mm below, and 19mm which is really for blowing the nail out of the timber. Even though I was blowing nails out I did test it for punching 3mm below and it was perfect for the task.

They are not cheap, and freight to Oz was about $70 IIRC, but that will get the job done in no time.

There is one available from Melbourne, but I didn't feel that it looked as good:
http://www.addemsairtools.com.au/spe...countersinker/

HTH
Brett

Good Morning Brett

From their video and your enthusiasm it looks exactly what I am looking for.

The Tas blue gum joists that I will be driving into are a lot harder than your cypress and the white? pine in the video. How do you think it would hadle that?


Fair Winds

Graeme

Thanks Paul and WoodSpirit.

That control of collateral damage really is a key issue. When finishe I want the floor to look like it is 100 years old and well maintained. I do not want to sand back so heavily that it looks like a new floor. If you get my drift.

Thanks for all suggestions.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Hi Greame

perhaps you should have a GTG and invite Brett and his pneumatic nail punch

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

The Tas blue gum joists that I will be driving into are a lot harder than your cypress and the white? pine in the video. How do you think it would hadle that?

Maaaaaaaate, the splitty Cypress is soft enough, you're right. The "Norf Coast Hardwood" joists, however, would make your Bluegum look cheese-like (if it's similar to what we call Bluegum up here).

I did my mammoth two week task right at the start of two weeks of thunderstorms three times a day. This taught me (right at the start most fortunately) that of the nail/joint is wet it will sink/pull out much easier. It also severely mitigated the splitting and breakout in the cypress boards. In other words, if you encounter some resistance or it's not working cleanly, then a tiny spray of water around the nail head left to sink in for 5 minutes will vastly improve things.

If I was in your shoes, and know what I do now about the nail kicker? Hands down the first thing i would use.

Originally Posted by ian

Hi Greame

perhaps you should have a GTG and invite Brett and his pneumatic nail punch

He'd have to spring it for some air fair too, not just fair air.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Maaaaaaaate, the splitty Cypress is soft enough, you're right. The "Norf Coast Hardwood" joists, however, would make your Bluegum look cheese-like (if it's similar to what we call Bluegum up here).

I did my mammoth two week task right at the start of two weeks of thunderstorms three times a day. This taught me (right at the start most fortunately) that of the nail/joint is wet it will sink/pull out much easier. It also severely mitigated the splitting and breakout in the cypress boards. In other words, if you encounter some resistance or it's not working cleanly, then a tiny spray of water around the nail head left to sink in for 5 minutes will vastly improve things.

If I was in your shoes, and know what I do now about the nail kicker? Hands down the first thing i would use.

Thanks again, Brett.

On the hardness issue I will just quote the relative hardnesses from Bootle :

White cypress - Callitris glauca - Yanka 6.5
Sydney blue gum - Eucalyptus saligna - Yanka 9.0
Tasmanian blue gum - Eucalyptus globulus - Yanka 12.0

Although I cannot prove it, I suspect my joists are even harder than Bootle's tested sample - they are certainly harder than other bush grown TBG that I have used and a lot harder than plantation TBG.

I will experiment with a bit of water on the nails to see if it loosens the timber at all. However, I suspect that the timber is now too old and too hard for the water to penetrate far enough to make much difference.

Fair Winds

Graeme

Wouldn't water possibly expand fibres? What about WD40 or a pentrating oil? Is staining an issue?

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

White cypress - Callitris glauca - Yanka 6.5
Sydney blue gum - Eucalyptus saligna - Yanka 9.0
Tasmanian blue gum - Eucalyptus globulus - Yanka 12.0

Yes, just goes to show how accurate and indicative common names can't be. No doubt with age they have hardened up some more.

How long do you think the nails might be? That will also have a bearing on how easy to drive in, or not. If they are around 2-2½", as I suspect they would be, then I'd be very surprised if the nail kicker won't drop them down the required 3mm. It may perhaps take 2-3 triggerings for some of them.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Wouldn't water possibly expand fibres? What about WD40 or a pentrating oil? Is staining an issue?

Paul, it's just there for long enough to get around the nail body as much as it can, and if the fibres were going to expand then any liquid will do that I should think. I'd say it made it around 30% easier to remove the cypress boards from the joists (sometimes the nails were left in the joists, and v.v.). The really important factor for me was that it reduced splitting and punch out very significantly (not an issue for Graeme)

Originally Posted by pmcgee

Wouldn't water possibly expand fibres? What about WD40 or a pentrating oil? Is staining an issue?

Good Morning Paul

Staining is very much an issue with what will become polished floor boards. Brett says water was 30% effective on cypress; it might just assist on very hard TBG. No harm in testing.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

..... How long do you think the nails might be? That will also have a bearing on how easy to drive in, or not. If they are around 2-2½", as I suspect they would be, then I'd be very surprised if the nail kicker won't drop them down the required 3mm. It may perhaps take 2-3 triggerings for some of them.

Good Morning Again Brett

No idea how long the nails are and extracting one to have a look would be difficult and probably cause damage to that plank. Judging by the size of the visible nail heads, I suspect that they may be longer than 2.5 inches. The nailheads are rectangular approximately 7 x 4.5 mm, although they do vary by perhaps 0.5 mm, probably indicating hand-made nails.

Anyone know what the trade norm for floor nails was in the 1880's?

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Brett says water was 30% effective on cypress; it might just assist on very hard TBG. No harm in testing.

And also just as effective on the nasty hardwood joists.