Thread: intellectual property and theft - Big Retailers

While I agree that hard earned intellectual property should be protected I tend to see the point Enfield Guy makes. Thats a bit of turned log and you cant say the designer selling $500 pieces invented that. After all people have been sitting on bits of log for thousands of years. I think the concept of patents gets abused from both directions.
I am now wondering where all the stuff Aldi does not manage to sell go.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by homey

Seems it’s the same the whole world over. Some members will know about Andrew Crawford’s battle with a prestigious London retailer over his SmartHinge design:

Fine box making in the Shropshire Hills newsletter, July 2018

The question begs, does the dude have design registration or a valid patent for the product? If he has then this highlights what I spoke of earlier. Design registration $5000. Patent $10000.might be a bit more, might be a bit less. Now apportion that over the product lifecycle. How much per unit? You tell me. Andrew Crawford charges a lot for his products and the are by all reports a quality product, at a very premium price.

in a past life I used to enjoy the challenge of altering product and document design so as to avoid breaching copyright and design registration. It generally isn’t that hard.

i know you follow me on Instagram Evan, I would encourage others, it’s a balls and all, ups and downs sort of feed. I have nothing to hide. Evan, I sort of hope dudes try to have a go. It will become almost immediately evident that they don’t know as much as they thought. The “magic” will never be revealed. You need the “magic” to make.I do appreciate your concern.

Back to the hinge thing, who would be interested in a very similar, and maybe better produc, for $18.00 a pair.

I find your posts on insta great. I like they way one can have fun with the audience. I've given up completely on Facebook. Insta is more relaxed, less formal and you can stuff around more... The audience loves it. Obviously, they love lots of pictures.

I wrote to Mr Crawford (as did probably hundreds). He is mad not to leverage this into an opportunity. Bugger that one company copying him - produce for everyone else and swamp them with demand... The Old "demand a smartHinge for quality" type of campaign.

Originally Posted by Beardy

Last time I was in Singapore there was no conterfeit product to be found although I am sure there would be some back block setup for it somewhere but the govt polices it firmly

Yes, they are definitely about, even in the most heavily policed states. after living there you learn that. The local rags seem to blatantly put ad's out " Low crime does not mean no crime" and there were definitely crimes very similar to every other countries, drug abuse, theft/burglaries, assaults, muggings and murders, but it just wasn't highly advertised. I did manage to find a knock-off shop but it was so secretly guarded and due to its nature, kept moving around (unlike Penang, where they line streets with counterfeit stalls). A taxi driver put us on to it one day. I did have to laugh as they had some very good copies of Rolex's to point that the movement was also automatic with 1/4second movement. I shook it and it started to tick, but then began ticking in reverse, I roared with laughter and especially after hearing the price.

One of the most blatant incidents I have seen was through my daughter's Industrial Design uni course a few years ago. One of their largest projects was designing a totally new look kitchen mix master. These projects resulted in full size 3D models with every fine detail included. From 1m away you wouldn't even know it wasn't a working version. One student had an outstanding design which was recognised as such by all fellow students and teaching staff.

About 12-18 months later one well known kitchen appliance manufacturer had it on shop shelves Australia wide. Gutting.

Design theft and "passing off" has been on forever. The top end designers expect it because they are focussed on the high end of the market. Artek, Saaronen, Knoll, Jacobsen knock offs are endemic.

Speaking of Arne Jacobsen, the famous Christine Keeler pic did wonders for his business even though the chair was a copy. Christine Keeler Photograph: A Modern Icon - Victoria and Albert Museum

mick

And was anyone pursued over the copy, no. Even with a registered design or a patent you would need to have very, very deep pockets to pursue the maker, and for what? At a glance it looks to me to be different enough to sneak though.

Originally Posted by Glider

Speaking of Arne Jacobsen, the famous Christine Keeler pic did wonders for his business even though the chair was a copy. Christine Keeler Photograph: A Modern Icon - Victoria and Albert Museum

A magnificent photograph. Chair isnt too bad either.....

Originally Posted by Enfield Guy

And was anyone pursued over the copy, no. Even with a registered design or a patent you would need to have very, very deep pockets to pursue the maker, and for what? At a glance it looks to me to be different enough to sneak though.

The text with the photo explains that the slot handle cut into the back was sufficient to differ its design from the original.

Lawsuits are only worthwhile if the appellant can successfully claim significant material loss. If the breach is blatant they may even ask for exemplary (penal)damages over and above their costs. You need a truckload of money before any win and there's always the possibility of an appeal.

Any improvement to a patented design allows the improver to use the "prior art" i.e. the original idea together with their own design input. IMO, patents are a waste of time and money and their protection redirects management focus from promotion of the product to defence of its design. He who owns the market reaps the rewards. Developing a concept to production and successful marketing can involve huge amounts of money. The better path for most is to present the concept to an established company in the market and be prepared to take a royalty of around 5%. A good confidentiality and non-disclosure agreement which precludes improvements accompanied by a personal statutory declaration by the recipient (who is often an employee) should protect the designer.

The free world doesn't have a justice system, we have a legal system. In some respects that is a good thing because the courts would be full of people suing others. That's the reason that NSW has Community Justice Centres which are free and allow parties to mediate without running to the courts.

mick

Originally Posted by Glider

. That's the reason that NSW has Community Justice Centres which are free and allow parties to mediate without running to the courts.

mick

Only had one dealing with the Community Justice Centre and it was a total waste of my time. Any decision made is non binding so a person can say “ yep, no worries, I’ll sort that out” then walk out the door and tell you to get f&$@&ed.
Am I bitter and twisted after my experience ? You better believe it.

I designed the original open transom for sailing boats. Or did I? My design was stolen by a boat builder before I had a chance to register. He just happened into my workshop as I was putting the finishing touches to the drawing. He remarked on the practicality of the whole concept and wished me well as he felt the end product would revolutionise boat design.
Upon submitting for registration, I was advised the concept was already patented by... guess who.
The mongrel never lived long enough to make any money out of it, but the damage was done.
My attitude to intellectual rights has changed over the years. I am now of the opinion that it is better to invent that which cannot be copied rather than relying on an archaic system to protect your rights.
To me, it seems illogical to think that after all this time, no one has already come up with the idea of a log turned on end could be used as a seat. Same too goes for my boat idea. It is not so much the original concept that is being patented, it is the race for the patents office that will determine the victor. First in best dressed.
Now put into the mix an overseas country that could not give a rats pajamas for any sort of business etiquette or law and you might as well have saved your registration fee and given it to a charity of your own choosing. A life spent guarding a patent in this day and age would be a futile one. Unless of course if you are a Lawyer.

My daughter-in-law gets involved in a lot of patent/trademark/copyright cases. The legal costs are absolutely astounding. The costs if not criminal then at the very least are obscene.

On a lighter note, I have seen a Chinese original design copied by a Frenchman! No doubt you'll all be pleased to know that it's not all one way traffic.

Meanwhile in the UK, Andrew Crawford's SmartHinges (see my post under Box Making) have been ripped off by a cabinet making firm not too far removed from royalty, and they've just thumbed their noses at him, because they have deeper pockets than he has.

Originally Posted by rustynail

I designed the original open transom for sailing boats.

It would be interesting to see your timeline as we had open transoms in 16' skiffs circa 1976/7. Certainly a massive improvement recovering from an unintended dip.